[screenobobeano]

I am really a proponent of the Chinese system. I’m a real estate investor and this “free market” isn’t going to last much longer since owning vacant homes will net you more than virtually anything else you could do legally. Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system.

[oatmeal1]

> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system.

Real Estate will stop being a free money machine when the government stops artificially restricting housing supply with single-use, single-family zoning.

[rocqua]

It won't. Zoning is stupid and harmful in the US. But real-estate will always be rising in value. There is no way to make more land. And land you do nothing to gains value from others around you improving their own land.

A land value tax that ignores the value of improvements on the land would make a dent. Freeloaders who buy a lot just to sell it later would see their gains evaporate. So land holders would seek to actually improve their land.

[bluGill]

Land generaly should increase in value with Inflation. There is a lot of land to develop if zoning doesn't get in the way-

[rocqua]

Land increases in real value (beyond inflation) aswell. This is due to people building roads nearby, schools nearby, nicer houses nearby, etc. It's effectively the old adage 'location location location'.

Currently another big driver of land value is zoning. But it isn't the only one. And until society starts degrading hard, the other drivers aren't going to slow down either. maybe with an exception for suburbia where the roads will need replacement even though the area doesn't raise enough tax revenue to pay for the replacement roads.

[oatmeal1]

Real-estate does not increase in value in Japan. Land might increase in value, but the developments depreciate. Agree that land value tax is much better than property tax.

[__loam]

I agree that we should relax residential zoning laws but it does feel pretty naive to think the free market alone will solve this. I doubt everyone being adequately housed is even the optimal state of the free market.

[Geisterde]

Its not a free market, we are closer to communist than we are free markets.

[blactuary]

If it's not a free market then your claim that price-fixing can't work can't possibly be true

[__loam]

Communist would be building concrete prefabs until we could house everyone. That's one of the few things the Soviets did right.

[achates]

The Soviet Union had chronic housing shortages. Multiple families would live squeezed together in one small apartment. The waiting list to get your own took years and years.

[mlrtime]

And In 1910, Manhattan reached a peak population of 2.2 million, from which it has never since rebounded.

People's idea of what is appropriate housing have changed.

[scotty79]

It's kind of funny how Chinese communists tried to build enough concrete prefabs not only for people to be housed but also for people who want to invest and it backfired spectacularly.

The investor class is simply insatiable and you can't just satisfy the demand because it's always growing beyond all reason.

You need to curb investors interest in real estate.

[Geisterde]

Ok, I have an idea, lets stop printing new money directly into the housing market through the federal reserve. Without it, there is no guarentee that a house will appreciate, in fact most homes would be considered depreciating assets. The cost of homes would plung 80, maybe 90%, and housing would be radically more affordable. Id be totally hosed, but I would find that a reasonable compromise.

[sensanaty]

The Netherlands doesn't have the US kind of weird zoning laws, yet we're still suffering a housing crisis.

The power is simply way too skewed in favor of gigantic companies with coffers that are infinitely deep when you compare them to any individual looking for housing. They can buy dozens of building at a time and completely eek out individuals looking for a home for themselves and their families, and what can anyone do about it?

Imo corporations should be legally barred from owning residential property of any kind, and there should be limits to what an individual can own for themselves as well, be it at the neighbourhood/district/city/state/country level. The overwhelmingly large majority of people need no more than a single home, the only people this kind of rule would affect negatively are the ones that aren't struggling in the first place.

[kaashif]

> it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system.

Are you aware that the government is the entity preventing housing from being built in many cities?

I don't think zoning should be abolished or anything but clearly the regulations the US has now, at least, are incorrect and restrict supply far too much.

[Georgelemental]

Didn't the Chinese real estate market collapse recently, with several major bankruptcies?

[dash2]

Yeah, and allegedly the super-efficient government controlled system has built on the order of 4 bn houses for 1.5 bn Chinese. This might be the largest and most costly housing bubble in history, and I believe it happened partly because China is terrified of letting its banks fail. If you think the "Greenspan put" is a thing, just wait till you hear about the PBOC put.

[scotty79]

It's a proof that "just build more houses" will never work as a solution to housing problem. Investors are simply insatiable.

[carom]

What is the Chinese system?

[trimethylpurine]

The Chinese system restricts foreign nation state actors from buying everything so they will not be able to do what China is doing to the US. The US has only just started writing policies to address that (for example: [1]), probably because for so many decades Americans wanted to believe that China was an ally, or at least a well meaning business partner. China proves that capitalism doesn't work by destroying it.

[1] https://www.faegredrinker.com/en/insights/publications/2024/...

[xbmcuser]

China is not doing anything to the US, western countries were willing to hide the black money of countries before as it helped their economies. As China and other countries got richer the amount of money those people started bringing and putting into the real estate of western cities in the world exploded. The property market crash of 2008 and low interest rates made the situation worse. Now people in the west are crying about property prices but if they stopped allowing in black money from countries they would not face the problem they do. If they can find out about terror financing etc then they for sure can find all the corruption and black money coming into their countries/cities.

[pyr0hu]

China is doing the same in the EU. In european capitals, they are buying up the properties, increasing the rents and pushing out young couples from renting flats for a reasonable price. There are districts in Budapest where all flats are owned by chinese people. How does it help the EU economies, if they are leasing without contract, without tax, without anything illegally? They came every month, you pay in cash, no trace (but this applies to 99% of hungary renting, so it's the issue with the current rental system), they aren't even injecting money into the economy this way. And it's getting ridiculous that 26-28 year old people cannot rent a flat by themselves and have to resort to renting a single room only for 30-40% of their salaries.

[csomar]

> How does it help the EU economies, if they are leasing without contract, without tax, without anything

You know if they did things by the books the rent will increase? (probably by 20-30%)

[xbmcuser]

It's not china ie chinese government doing it but rather Chinese people purchasing residential properties. Chinese government is interested more in stuff like ports, airports/infrastructure. In actual fact China would prefer the money it's population is spending abroad is spent at home specially since the COVID slow down has slowed it's economic growth. So china restricts money going out of its borders now western countries could help China block it but that would be helpful to Chinese communist government so they don't and that is resulting in their own citizens getting priced out of their own cities.

[trimethylpurine]

>It's not china ie chinese government

At least in regards to the US, no one can really know that. The Chinese government technically doesn't own anything in the US anymore. The alarm is being raised because supposedly private Chinese enterprise includes ownership of significant American food production (e.g. largest pork manufacturer), farm land, homes near military facilities, etc. Those are strategically sound holdings for national defense in both countries. Suburbs are built on farm land, etc. It's very difficult to decouple real estate from national defense, really.

That said, "Chinese people" don't own all that much in the US overall when compared with other countries. China is being singled out because they have been caught spying repeatedly. They stood and burned their embassy and refused to allow firefighters in. There is military posturing. They are invading American airspace over the US mainland. All these combined paint such purchases in a suspicious light at the very least.

There's enough evidence to know that the Chinese government is funding at least some of the purchases. It could be most of these purchases. No one can know for sure, not even the individual buyers themselves. Only the Chinese government knows.

I think the same applies in Europe?

[trimethylpurine]

>China is not doing anything to the US

In many cases the ownership has been traced to government funding. The suspicion is that these are just the tip of the iceberg.

So, at least in the eyes of the US Congress, based on some damning evidence, China is doing something to the US.

That said, "black money" is also a problem. But I suspect that's the case in China as well. There's no way to eliminate all corruption, even in China.

[Y_Y]

What on earth is a "foreign nation state actor"? Do you mean "country"?

[trimethylpurine]

In the US this term is used to distinguish a country's government from its people. It refers specifically to a person or enterprise acting at the direction or as part of a country's government or military, as opposed to a private citizen. That's an important distinction in a country obsessed with protecting civil rights where nationality is a protected class. Under US law, preventing the purchase of a house based on national origin is unconstitutional. But if they are acting on behalf of a foreign government... You get the idea.

[margalabargala]

> Real Estate is a free money machine, and it won’t stop until we adopt realistic government controlled system.

On the contrary, the skyrocketing homelessness rates around the country are showing that demand for housing is more elastic than people thought.

[Auracle]

Real estate will continue to be a good investment as long as demand outstrips supply.