[saberience]

I hate this sort of "woke" argument. It's a way of shutting down valid criticism by portraying anyone who didn't like the show as a racist. I thought Foundation was a badly written show and poorly cast, but it had nothing to do with the gender or race of anyone, I just thought the cast mostly didn't give a shit, had never read the books, combined with a poor script.

[croes]

But there were also people who criticized black female actors playing white male roles from the book, and that's not a valid critique if the gender and skin color isn't a necessary part of the role.

[troupo]

Besides, Asimov's book tend to have neither female characters nor people of color.

I think Foundation admits people of other races exist by book 5, in passing. And there are like two (maybe?) notable female characters in the entire book series.

[Larrikin]

So why are getting offended about call outs of actual racism if you aren't upset about the races of the characters?

The second part of your comment could have been anywhere in this thread, especially if you actually had specific complaints.

But you had to use the word woke and get angry, so you could pretend there haven't been racist comments about the show on the internet from the sci-fi community?

Pretending nobody is racist helps no one but actual racists from getting called out.

[hackeraccount]

Oh I wasn't calling you a racist I was just saying that a lot of racists agree with you.

How is someone supposed to take that? Refuting an argument not made is either a great way to make a point or a great way to make someone really unhappy.

[Larrikin]

I'm not buying this argument that it is ok to dog whistle and don't really care about the feelings of people who want to engage in that activity.

If you're agreeing with their viewpoint but for a different reason, explain the reasoning.

If you don't feel like typing out a substantive comment, why would anyone want to read the comment you barely felt like typing out.

[hackeraccount]

Dog whistling is like sealioning. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's the least worrisome and bothering thing on the Internet.

If someone is dog whistling they are effectively conceding the argument because they're too ashamed to make the case plainly. Just take the W. The alternative is to explain to someone (and some hypothetical audience) that you you know what's going on inside someone's mind better then they do.

And again - there are people who will literally say they are Nazi's. There are people who will make not dog whistle or beat around the bush argument but straight up I am not ashamed to say arguments for awful things.

If you like Foundation and disagree with the arguments that it's not good then engage the argument made - just saying that you think there's an unstated argument and you'd like to engage with that particular one doesn't really get you anywhere.