[anticorporate]

I understand there are some larger compliance-related issues that need to be solved and that this seems like it's an unintended consequence of the regulatory requirements put in place to solve this.

But there are huge consequences for small business owners in requiring a physical address. I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction. My business is where ever I am. To date, I've paid for a registered agent service in my state so I can use their address. It costs me several hundred dollars a year for the "convenience" of not listing my home address in public records, which again, would also not be accurate because my business does not exist in my home. Same with a nonprofit I'm involved with - the nonprofit exists on Zoom and in temporary space we rent for meetings and events, and we receive mail to a PO Box.

There are also further downstream implications to this kind of problem. Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.

[gamblor956]

Your business's primary place of business is your home (referring specifically to the parent comment, not businesses in general). That you can also carry out the business where ever you physically are does not change that basic fact from a legal or tax perspective.

Zoning compliance is not required for a home office (assuming white collar type work). Many, but not all jurisdictions require business licenses, even for home offices. This does not trigger inspections, because a business license isn't about the workplace, it's about the business itself.

EDIT/FOLLOWUP: Your "place of business" does not need to be your mailing address, because you can use a PO Box. It also doesn't need to be your address for legal service (i.e., for service of lawsuits), since most companies use a registered agent for that. At the most basic level, for a solo entrepreneur, your place of business is simply the one common location to which you have a legal right from which you do at least some of your business. In the absence of an owned or leased/subleased office or other workplace, it defaults to your residence.

[NewJazz]

What if I never do business in my home, but instead operate out of libraries, coffee shops, or client's locations?

Picture a carpet cleaning van parked on the street, for example.

[onlyrealcuzzo]

If you're a sole practitioner (what this article is about) - by definition - your business is you. And you are most often in your home.

It's not that complicated.

You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house.

I don't blame you.

We all want to have cake and eat it, too.

[mattgreenrocks]

> You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house.

What's the alternative here? Pay a couple hundred a year for a forwarding address that is sufficiently real enough for Stripe to accept?

Asking out of personal interest. I'm working on the solopreneur route and looking at what's available for myself. Would prefer to keep it away from my personal address.

[hazmazlaz]

Yes, this is the answer. Pay for a virtual address/agent, it's just part of the cost of doing business.

[drpossum]

This isn't about angry customers knowing where you live. This is about angry government since it's for regulatory purposes.

[NewJazz]

you are most often in your home

Yet another baseless assumption.

You want the benefits of a business while not having to worry about angry customers annoying you at your house

Or one may wish to continue making money to feed themselves even though they cannot afford housing. Have you ever had to apply for apartments on self employment income?

[gamblor956]

Generally in the U.S., this has been a settled question for over a century. If you really have questions, there is guidance about this to govern pretty much every jurisdiction in the continental U.S.

For a solo entrepreneurship business in the U.S., your home is your place of business if you do not have another fixed place of business.

[NewJazz]

Consider the question unsettled. Or at the very least unsettling.

[olliej]

The address here would presumably be the one where you can be physically served a lawsuit.

My concern is that if I had an online business that I worked on at home, I still wouldn’t want my home address to be given out by my payment processor.

[whaleofatw2022]

This is what I was thinking. Trying to do Service on a lawsuit/etc is a huge PITA.

[ghaff]

When I bought my house many many years ago, I think I got something in the sale agreement about being able to operate a business out of my house provided it was just a mail-order business without associated traffic. (The seller was continuing to live next door.)

So I'm not sure about zoning in most places--especially today--but it wouldn't surprise me if there were some restrictions on business-related commercial traffic.

[jjav]

> I think I got something in the sale agreement about being able to operate a business out of my house

I don't understand this. Whatever requirements (if any) that apply to your home business are going to be set by the city/county (and those can change over the years). Your home purchase agreement doesn't have any jurisdiction over that.

[rideontime]

In what jurisdiction does the former owner of a property have any say regarding what the new owner does with the property?

[hiatus]

Any that allows covenants that run with the land. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/covenant_that_runs_with_the_...

[ghaff]

I'm am not a property lawyer but I assume that's the case here. I assume were I to sell my property, the buyer couldn't unilaterally forbid my (now different) neighbor from using my driveway and, if they were to sell, the new neighbor couldn't forbid me from walking down to the river. Fortunately, people are pretty reasonable around where I live.

[ghaff]

I assume that this is also how conservation covenants work. A new owner doesn't get to say "just kidding" and develop land that was turned into a property allowing public use with use restrictions.

[ghaff]

In the jurisdiction where they have to actually agree to sell you the property. They gave me a couple of things (e.g. traverse their land to the river). I gave them a couple of things (like making the business aspect explicit and being able to use my driveway to get to their stable). Perfectly normal to have easements and other restrictions/conditions.

[ceejayoz]

HOAs are a great example.

[friendzis]

Where you do business and where you carry out business operations are quite often very different locations.

[DinaCoder99]

Pragmatically, there's a lot of great reasons to not use your personal address as a business address. I still have unemployment claims and financing offers chasing me for a company I started five years ago and closed four years ago.

[Animats]

For some reason, this doesn't seem to be a problem for me. For over twenty years, I've had a registered fictitious business name, a D&B number, and a registered US trademark tied to my home address. I don't even get junk mail for that.

[rideontime]

> unemployment claims

Can you elaborate?

[anticorporate]

> Zoning compliance is not required for a home office (assuming white collar type work).

Actually, it is in my jurisdiction. I have to have a Home Occupation Permit for any type of business whatsoever registered at my home. This is why my address on file is my registered agent, in a different city in my state that does not have this absurd requirement.

[Aurornis]

> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide,

Is Stripe revealing this address to customers?

This page only says a business address must be provided, not that it will be revealed to customers.

If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address?

> Suddenly if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors

What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with?

Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home.

[jjav]

> Is Stripe revealing this address to customers?

One needs to assume that policies can always change. I don't know if they are revealing the addresses today, but once they have them, they may well start revealing them next month.

Or they may have a data breach that just leaks everything.

[anticorporate]

> If you have a business, you already have a business address and you're paying taxes somewhere. Why can't you use that address?

As I said, I pay for the privilege of having a fictional address with a registered agent. It's a racket, but unfortunately, an unavoidable one until we stop this nonsense.

> What country are you in? Do you have any examples of this happening, or is this just a hypothetical you came up with?

The United States, and yes, I personally know someone who this happened to.

> Regardless, if your business is registered and you're paying taxes then, again, there's already an address associated with it. Stripe verifying this address isn't going to send local inspectors to your home.

My problem isn't with Stripe, it's with governments creating unnecessary hoops for people to jump through that don't actually solve any compliance issues. I pay for the privilege of avoiding it with a third party service that provides an address. I shouldn't have to. It doesn't help me, and it doesn't actually do anything for regulatory compliance.

[hankchinaski]

There are virtual office addresses for this very reason

[MBCook]

That was my first thought.

How is one of those small offices in a building somewhere that have 4700 businesses “located” in that one office any different from a PO Box at a local UPS store?

Effectively it’s not. They’re both lies. But one got cut off so now the other will pick up the slack.

[mattgreenrocks]

> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide

I think this is the crux of it: who could see this information? Where is it flowing to now, and where can it flow to in the future?

[Arainach]

> I don't need or want anyone to ever physically appear at an address I provide, because providing _any_ address for my business is a fiction.

Surely you see how this is also a desirable trait for every scammer out there?

> if my business exists at my home address, my city wants a local business license and zoning compliance permit, so they can inspect the non-existent physical location and be sure the zero traffic it is generating isn't causing a burden on my neighbors.

"this change makes it harder to violate the law" is not a compelling argument

[anticorporate]

You're missing the point. I don't operate a business from my home. I operate a business from my truck and from client sites. There literally is not a business at my home.

[Arainach]

All businesses have a home. They must comply with a set of laws (yes, including business permits) and be able to respond to disputes. A business with no physical location is not practical in society.

[jjav]

> All businesses have a home.

There is a vast difference between a disgruntled violent person showing up at the address of SmallGuy LLC (which happens to be their home) and the same type of person showing up at the street address of, say, Apple who has thousands-strong security force.

> A business with no physical location is not practical in society.

This comment on HN of all places is clearly incorrect, since most web businesses don't exist in any physical location.

[Arainach]

>most web businesses don't exist in any physical location.

They have employees, they have servers, they absolutely exist in a physical location.

[jjav]

> They have employees, they have servers, they absolutely exist in a physical location.

Many years ago, yes. Today, no.

The servers are in "the cloud". Employees are all remote, there is no location for the company itself.

My previous company was 100% remote from day one. I never met anyone in person.

[anticorporate]

> A business with no physical location is not practical in society.

That's an opinion, and my point is that I do not hold that opinion. It's only not practical because we make it impractical, not because any benefit is gained by forcing people to jump through hoops to set up and pay for virtual addresses.

[Arainach]

The ability to compel someone to appear and answer for crimes committee by a business is a huge benefit. So is ensuring local businesses aren't undercut by businesses who claim no jurisdiction.

[anticorporate]

But that doesn't require an address. My filing with the Secretary of State in the state where I incorporate could just include a selection of which jurisdiction's laws I operate under. That's effectively what it is already, since I can choose where to have my virtual address. This would just cut out the gouging for a virtual address.

[mytailorisrich]

In my jurisdiction, and I suppose many others, a business must provide a physical address in order to incorporate, known as the registered address.

This does not have to be the place of business but is to ensure that legal documents may be served and other official letters delivered.

There are many services offering virtual office addresses for this.

It is not a problem. In fact, would you go into business with a company that has no address?