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by georgespencer 5158 days ago
I'm sick of this sort of crummy linkbait. The exact same thing crops up every few months on HN. "Ideas are a dime a dozen! Engineering is the one true way! Execution is paramount! Reddit, here's a picture of my cute cat!"

It's not black and white (the cat, or the matter in hand here).

As a community, we all nurture fragile ideas. Some of them are big, bold ideas (like beating Google at search), but almost all of them are very fragile. People shouldn't labour on in delusion, but if you say the wrong thing to the wrong dispirited guy who has been thinking about a brilliant idea for three months, then you're going to harm rather than help. And you can help without investing your asshole consulting time.

Nobody needs more assholes reflecting on their status within the startup landscape ("I'm a scarce resource") and denigrating people who presumably are coming to you to share ideas they're excited about ("available markers" – whatever that means – "and business monkeys"), whilst simultaneously insinuating that the work engineers do is somehow more vital or worthy ("I have [to] make an investment and [do] actual work while you played [sic] around with excel spreadsheets and send [sic] out a few press releases?").

Engineering is vitally important. But that alone does not encompass execution. An MVP (or a P) is the sum total of the amount of sheer thought that has gone into it from everyone who has worked on it or cares about it. Your asshole consulting code doesn't mean anything if it's a feature which nobody needs. A great software engineer contributes code and creative ideas which push a project on. A non-technical co-founder should protect their engineering team and contribute creative ideas which push a project on, whilst doing the grunt work required to push the project on (pay your taxes. Find an office. Do an angel raise. All the crappy ephemeral stuff that goes with a new startup). But most importantly they are there to care and nurture fragile ideas.

The thing which I sincerely loved about this article was the last paragraph. And it's probably a charge which could be leveraged at this comment, but you should have reconsidered your entire post around the final paragraph. Instead of making it a polemic against curious people with ideas who want to share them with you, and telling them just why you're not interested in working with anyone ever, you should have helped people be more persuasive with those ideas in talking to highly technically literate individuals.

Yes, there are countless people who believe they have ideas which can change the world. Yes, there are fewer engineers who can help them get there. What these ideas people need is someone who is prepared to help them realise they are at step 1 of 1.5m, and the most critical thing to do right now is get to step 2. That takes five seconds. It takes a pertinent question. It takes making them stop and think for a second. It doesn't take a list of vaguely offensive barbs and generalisations.

Context: I am a semi-technically literate cofounder (HTML/CSS/JS, competent PHP).

2 comments

I always love to piss off my tech friends by reminding them that Microsoft didn't get to where it was by having the best engineering in the world.. Sales, Marketing and making hard deals that put their products in front of the most customers.

I'm not saying I love their tactics but the "Build it and they will come" really is a field of dreams and young engineers are all dreamers thinking Sales and Marketing is a waste of people and money.

Actually, Microsoft got where it was by being able to reliably make software. They where the first company to be able to built just about anything. Windows, Excel, Word, Access, Outlook where all just copy's that overtook the original. Now days it does not seem like a big deal, but Bill Gates was a software developer and knew how to get things done when most large companies are incapable of writing software. He also happened to be rich, well connected, and ruthless which is how he became the richest guy in the world.

PS: But, here is the thing. Your probably not Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Sergey Brin, Larry Page, or Mark Zuckerburg, but if you can't write code I know your not in their league because they could code. They may not have been great developers but they know enough to understand what's going on which is necessarily in a co-founder even if their not 'technical' they should learn enough to understand what's happening. Getting a start-up off the ground is 100 times harder than learning the basic of software development so yes I use it as a filter when evaluating non technical people.

And yet Microsoft did have the best engineers in the world. And Bill Gates was also a software engineer.
Yeah, but technical credits are easly demonstrated. Sales and Marketing are squishier.

I've been through half a dozen startups. They each go through several Sales teams before they're done - try some guys, sorry not working, get some more. What does that tell you?

Probably that the people assessing the sales team at a hiring stage made mistakes. You're right, though: it is hard to hire sales/marcomms people.

In the same way as a layman hiring a technical guy might not know what to look out for ("This guy knows ActionScript and says that's what we should build our web app in! He's a great developer!"), a layman hiring sales or marketing people is going to get shafted.

Good sales people are at least as scarce as good engineers. The best ones can sell anything, so why would they bother selling subscriptions to your web app for a $20 commission when they can sell oil refinery equipment for a $200k commission? They aren't interested in challenges or doing new and innovative things like engineers are. They're economically driven.

It tells me the leadership of those companies don't understand sales performance. :)

Sales people have the greatest jobs really! They either perform or they don't.. Its easy to measure and easier to take action.

Sales people, assuming commission is a large portion of their compensation as is common, are the absolute easiest to measure -"Show me your w2 form from your last job".
That isn't how it works.

What if the person had a compensation package which paid really well for selling a product which could be sold by over promising? Their W2 would look awesome but the company would be screwed. I would be most cautious of business people leaving a job with a strong w2. Also it is important to see relative performance. What if they are making 100k and their coworkers are bringing home 500k? Are they still good then?

Thanks for this. I am also a semi-technical founder, but I've learned enough HTML/CSS/JS and Python to get an MVP online by myself. I did this because because I had almost no resources when I started out, enjoy programming and wanted to get better, and because I knew it would help with attracting skilled engineers.

I've talked to several professional devs in the process. The best ask thought provoking questions about my technology choices and business plan, even if they're not available -- one even took an afternoon to work on a prototype Android client with me. I appreciate the frustration that motivates the original post, but a polite no is usually enough to deflect inquiries that aren't serious or well thought out, and an angry blog about "business guys" risks turning off quality people.