[ElFitz]

> American physicians also work almost teice as many hours as their European counterparts which would increase their incomes.

I’d be curious as to where you got that. I was personally suprised to discover that in Germany, doctors in university hospitals can work up to 80 hours a week.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016885102...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1385440/physicians-work-...

https://medicalschoolexpert.co.uk/how-many-hours-do-doctors-...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/15/junior-docto...

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240219-france-s-foreign...

https://www.irdes.fr/EspaceAnglais/Publications/IrdesPublica...

https://facharztjetzt.de/24-7-guardians-unveiling-the-workin...

[bradleyjg]

US doctors are among the richest people in the entire world, have an involuntary unemployment rate that rounds to zero, can live wherever they like without serious impact on pay and yet somehow are also the most oppressed and put upon if you ask them. Go figure it out.

[esoleyman]

It’s inappropriate to link once dissatisfaction with one’s income.

There are multiple reasons why US doctors are unhappy about their profession. I’m not sure where you get being oppressed as being the titular complaint.

I was an engineer before going to medical school and have an outside perspective as well.

I have complaints with medicine as to how it has changed over the last 10 years and not for the best. I have the right to complain to make things better for my patients and my work-life balance. That doesn’t mean that I am oppressed.

[bradleyjg]

You have the right to complain and I have the right to point out that your industry, along with the housing and education industries, has stolen the entire productivity gains of a generation of Americans. I’m not concerned with your work life balance.

[esoleyman]

Your complaint should be directed towards the hospitals, for-profit insurance companies, and others who profit massively on the backs of patients.

My "industry" is only myself as I am beholden to my patients. I work and am paid by each patient who I treat and receive reimbursement by 50% of them at best.

If you don’t care about my work-life balance and lump me in with the rest of the healthcare system, then there’s nothing much to discuss.

[HDThoreaun]

Doctors also massively profit off the back of patients. They make far more and live a far more lavish lifestyle than doctors in other countries. I have multiple doctors in my family, they all work less than 30 hours a week and make more than 300k. And theyre not even in the lucrative specialties. Most are family physicians which Im sure you know is the worst paid doctor.

[esoleyman]

Doctors are paid by the patients that they treat. As an emergency physician, I treat 20-25 patients per shift on average and I am paid by approximately half of them due to not having insurance or money to pay for my services. I am paid roughly $120 per patient. Is that excessive in your opinion?

I would say that doctors in other countries are not paid accordingly and are UNDER-paid. See the UK NHS strikes as an example.

You should be complaining about is the excessive charges and reimbursement that hospitals receive for the care that they give. It gives me pause that despite having multiple physicians in your family that you do not understand the difficulty of their practice or work environment.

Most white collars jobs including doctors, engineers, and administrators make multiples of our European counterparts. I would say that Europe underpays its workers.

Again, I am a highly paid worker just like the rest of you. If I don’t work and treat patients then I am not paid anything whatsoever.

I would be further much ahead financially if I had stuck to being an engineer 18 years ago and not have put off earning an income for 7 years and going into massive debt. This was a risk because I come from a blue collar, lower middle class background without a safety net.

What is the point of your diatribe?

[Amezarak]

Health care cost disease in the US has little to do with doctor salaries or demand for doctors. Unfortunately, as that would be a relatively easy problem to solve. The data I've seen indicates physician salaries adjusted for inflation are relatively flat or have even declined since the 1970s.

[esoleyman]

You may be right about the work hours. I possibly mis-remembered an article from several years ago when they compared income and work hours.