[durag]

I read the article twice but I'm having a hard time imagining how these are supposed to work. How does showing the note to the person that is trying to get bribed differ from just telling them it's wrong and that you won't do it? Usually in those situation you don't really have a choice, like when a cop stops you in the middle of the night. Is it meant to be given in a discrete way, so that the false note is discovered after the supposed bribe?

[sonofhans]

This is describing a different culture, so your expectations are being confounded. In places bribery is truly pervasive, paying bribes is a habit. You see your parents do it, you see how everyone around you accepts it. Indian (very broadly — this is a stereotype) culture can be less individualistic than the USA, and this makes it even harder to say no to things like this.

It’s like tipping, in the USA — so pervasive that it’s invisible. And these days with digital point-of-sale systems, you have to take affirmative action _not_ to tip, and people in line around you can see, so the social pressure is enormous.

So the note is proof that the person not paying the bribe is not alone, that they are part of a movement, that their actions are acceptable to at least some portion of their society. This makes is feel safer, and puts the onus on the briber to either escalate or to back down.

It also relies on the sense of shame of the briber. Since bribes are commonplace, some civil servants depend on them for their livelihood, or at least their lifestyle. Confronted with the evidence of a social movement saying that their actions are not ok, they’re more likely to feel some shame, versus just feeling anger at a random citizen confronting them.

[_nalply]

> It also relies on the sense of shame of the briber.

You meant the sense of shame of the person being bribed? I ask to avoid a misunderstanding.

[jimmydddd]

I think they meant the person requesting the bribe payment would be ashamed? Why would the person being pressured to pay a bribe feel shame?

[_nalply]

Yeah that's exactly this!

The person requesting the bribe payment = person being bribed or "bribee"

The person paying the bribe = briber

However GP wrote "shame of the briber". Oops!

[ginko]

>It’s like tipping, in the USA — so pervasive that it’s invisible.

Incidentally giving out fake dollar bills as tip is or was a thing. At least enough for a handful articles:

https://www.businessinsider.com/20-tip-bible-pamphlet-2015-1...

[mike_hock]

Just like the zero rupee bills, these should be widespread. Not with a bible pamphlet inside, but an explanation why tipping culture is detrimental in the long run.

[sterlind]

Please don't be the jerk who leaves fake bills that say tipping is detrimental. I promise you that servers don't have power over management to change the tipping system, you'll just come off as an asshole.

The difference is that wait staff effectively get paid 20% less than they would otherwise, on the expectation of getting a 20% tip. According to US labor law you can even pay servers less than minimum wage, as long as their tips make up for the difference. So by not tipping you're shorting workers of their wages.

If you want to end tipping culture, call the restaurant owners and tell them to bake tips into the menu prices.

[mike_hock]

> The difference is that wait staff effectively get paid 20% less than they would otherwise, on the expectation of getting a 20% tip.

Yes, and the only reason restaurant owners can get away with this is because there is a labor market of servers willing to work for 20% less based on the expectation that they'll get the rest back in tips.

I agree that you should apply pressure to the system at multiple points, not just by foregoing tips. Tell managers straight up that you don't intend to tip and to pay their staff proper wages.

[paulddraper]

> You can even pay servers less than minimum wage, as long as their tips make up for the difference. So by not tipping you're shorting workers of their wages

By definition, the server cannot get paid less than minimum wage for wage+tips, regardless of many people stiff the tip.

(Normally I wouldn't mention this since minimum wage is often lower than market rate anyway, but apparently min wage was significant enough for you to mention it.)

[xp84]

Since this is HN and many of us live in California, it’s worth pointing out that California doesn’t have a lower tipped minimum wage anymore, these people are getting $16 an hour before tips. The official reason is gone in this state, yet the tipping bs persists.

[fragmede]

Legally, yes, but it won't come as a shock that some employers (and employees) don't follow the law to the letter.

[xp84]

> they get paid less…

Not in California they don’t. Not for years. The tipped minimum wage is $16, same as the minimum wage for the people at Burger King (whose jobs are actually harder and worse, incidentally). Tipping is toxic and should die. And while I’ll tip at a sit-down restaurant I’m done. Counter service? Kiosk service? Mobile app ordering? No. I have a tip for management though: pay your damn employees yourself and leave me out of it.

[Semaphor]

> you have to take affirmative action _not_ to tip, and people in line around you can see, so the social pressure is enormous.

A foodtruck I watch on twitch has everyone choose an option. No tip, some pre-set amounts, or custom. So no social pressure there, as no one else will know. They are using the square register.

[StockHuman]

In addition to other responses, know that the zero-note makes its way to the corrupt official's hands before they can inspect it. From their perspective, they've just completed an illegal act with someone willing to challenge their authority out of a sense of justice. What would you even do after receiving a zero note instead of a bribe as requested? So goes the example: of a smile and nothing more.

[alwa]

But in cases where the bribe is to expedite an official act—they give the example of getting a driver license issued—why wouldn’t the official just give the smile then shuffle your application to the bottom of the pile?

[dotnet00]

The official would be wary of appearing to take retaliatory action, since by being given the note, the person would have already signalled that they are the type to actively oppose bribery rather than just refusing to pay and otherwise turning a blind eye.

[MontagFTB]

As a giver of one of these notes, I would imagine you have decided to stand against bribery no matter the outcome of the scenario where it is given. Hopefully reason wins out and the situation ends amicably. To address the bribery problem, though, there’s a sense where you have to be okay with things getting worse before they get better.

It seems to me the note is a socially well known form of protest, which may go down better than a direct interaction.

[araes]

Frankly, when I started reading the article, I was actually expecting far more direct, practical applications, rather than pseudo-shame that I don't trust corrupt officials to have.

Stuff like:

If you have to pay, then paying a portion in Zero Notes so the total money is reduced.

Hiding fake money in the real money, so it will be obvious it was bribe money.

Allow you to tip off police, while mostly looking innocent if you're caught "I thought it was a real ruppee!"

Filling suitcases full of fake money, because they can't check before you leave (if you meet in public).

Making them with electronics, so the bribers can be followed (has other creepy issues though).

Making them with ink, that ruins other bribe money.

I dunno, like every con movie trick that Hollywood's used in money capers.

[sonofhans]

You know, there’s a lot of prior art here, which again is very culturally-specific: Mahatma Gandhi used non-violence and shame to liberate India from British rule. Imagine how that changes your outlook on the world, vs. the story of the American Revolution.