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by xavxav 849 days ago
> health emergencies

We have socialized health care, and even private care is like 1% the cost of american healthcare. I got elective surgery without insurance which included full anethesia in a private clinic and they were very sorry because the total would be 600 euros.

> retirement

Public retirement is ~50% of your average lifetime salary though the age was recently raised from 62 to 64 (in the face of massive protests).

> losing a job

Firing is harder to do in the first case, they have to have cause, or the company has to be facing bankruptcy, there's a long notice period. Unemployment is also a decent percentage of your salary and can go on for months.

Frankly on 60k a year, you live well even in a city like Paris, you're not living a life of luxury but that's comfortable upper middle class levels (in Paris).

3 comments

> We have socialized health care, and even private care is like 1% the cost of american healthcare. I got elective surgery without insurance which included full anethesia in a private clinic and they were very sorry because the total would be 600 euros.

Socialized healthcare is pretty much a given in other similar countries in the EU though, it's the US which is an outlier.

Most French people believe they still live in the France of the 1990s: a country of abundance with excellent ROI for the amount of taxes paid.

But as you pointed out, other european countries have since caught up and provide the same benefits.

> I got elective surgery without insurance which included full anethesia in a private clinic and they were very sorry because the total would be 600 euros.

600 Euros for elective surgery with full anesthesia is insanely cheap. Even by EU standards. There must be some subsidies involved from the public health sector for that surgery or something to knock that price down. In Austria a surgery is thousands.

Doctors at a private clinic won't even get out of bed for 600 Euros let alone pay for the whole staff and clinic.

Austria might be an outlier.

In the UK, Sweden and Estonia (the only places I have data for) it would be within this ballpark, never more than €1k (in their respective currencies).

Maybe, but because of outliers you can't then claim EU elective surgery is cheap when it obviously doesn't apply across the entire block. I'm sure it's cheap in some countries yes.
It is in 100% of the places I know about.

I think making any broad EU statement even if it applies to many/most is fine.

There will always be some outliers in the data.

There is a similar argument about generalisations on behaviour, ie: statistically average behaviours of people.

You have to be able to talk in broad strokes with the knowledge that it doesn't apply to everyone.

>It is in 100% of the places I know about.

It's also in 100% of the countries I know about. What does that mean?

how many EU countries do you know about?

Would you like me to investigate the propensity of this EU wide, or are you being glib about knowing only a single country and that technically is 100% of your knowledge?

60k per year is around 3200€ per month after taxes. It could be comfortable upper class level life only if you own the place you live and have a small family without special needs. If you rent and have few children - you screwed.
> It could be comfortable upper class level life

I think we might have a different understanding of what "upper class" means. Upper class is the likes of Trump/Bezos/Musk/.

3200 Euros/month will not let you live even remotely near that. It's a decent middle class and that's it.

Upper class is definitely not Trump/Bezos/Musk. They exist beyond the upper class. Upper class are the kind of people to own holiday houses in nice coastal cities, "work" by running a business their parents left them and travel first class once a year.

Rich and famous isn't really part of the class system.