[brolumir]

Really wish this existed in the 90's when my family moved to the US from eastern europe. A non-exhaustive list of scams my parents fell for:

- Investing money in a friend's company - this was the most painful as it was perpetuated by our family members who lived here for a while that we trusted

- Rainbow vacuum cleaner

- Aqualife water filter

- Hiring someone to take us to another city to buy a car to "help get a good deal" - turned out he was working for the seller, and it was not a good deal at all

- A summer job for me selling Vector cutlery

Unfortunately it's easy to scam new immigrants, this happened for hundred years and still happening now.

[wolverine876]

> - Investing money in a friend's company - this was the most painful as it was perpetuated by our family members who lived here for a while that we trusted

I don't know your parents' experience, of course, but this method of losing money is one of the most popular for everyone. I once saw an expert who provides finanical education to new professional atheletes (known for being bankrupt soon after retirement despite millions in income). Loans to family/friends' businesses was top of their list of no-no's.

On the other hand, many successful businesses have started that way. Many more legitimate but failed efforts also have begun that way. Not everyone has access to VC capital, personal wealth, or a bank loan.

[brolumir]

Yeah, I should've been more clear: it wasn't really investing in a friends company. I agree it can be a source of funding when other sources aren't available, but in this case it was a total scam - the company was specifically designed to accept money and fold.

[adrianmsmith]

It's really a bitter pill to swallow that there exist people who would do this to their friends.

[TeMPOraL]

Or family members. MLMs and social media influencers are a plague.

[pessimizer]

Affinity fraud.

[Daub]

Here in Singapore there was a plague of such cases when China opened up. The main victims were ethnic Chinese Singaporeans being screwed over by long lost family members in China.

[delta_p_delta_x]

It's only getting worse[1].

There's so many tele-scammers from China nowadays and old Singaporean Chinese are ripe for the pickings. The usual ones I hear over the phone are MOH, IRAS, or SingPost, or some other authority impersonation.

[1]: https://sg.news.yahoo.com/record-scam-cases-singapore-2023-t...

[throwup238]

> On the other hand, many successful businesses have started that way.

It's called the triple F round: friends, family, and fools.

[nothercastle]

Most people could probably benefit from someone helping them navigate the car buying process. For a $500 I bet I could talk most buyers through the right lease, payment setup and financing and pre negotiate a decent deal in one of the 3-4 neighboring states and setup an inspection at a good mechanics if buying used. I bet I could bring 1-2k of value into that transaction. If I was doing it as my day job I could probably squeeze out 2-3k or help them tap the auction market directly.

[bombcar]

The problem is there's no way to prove that you're doing that and not a scammer; you're almost better off just asking someone who bought one recently what they did.

(What you're suggesting is basically Nothercastle's Used Cars)

[nothercastle]

Except it’s more like a buyers agent or a doula. Someone that’s navigated the process many times to assist on behalf of a buyer. Upfront payment no commission or kickback could even put that in the contract.

I do think these people exist I’ve seen them advertise services in specialty car forums but it’s very niche.

[gnopgnip]

But the buyers agent is going to work with most buyers only once. And work with dealers many times. This is hard to get the incentives right

[nothercastle]

Pre Pay the agent then the incentive is correct.

[wodenokoto]

But now you need an agent to help you navigate through the market of car-buying agents!

[to11mtm]

You see it more frequently in certain luxury vehicles where the price is part of the prestige, usually to where the equation is a bit more managed, e.x. they can set base price higher and have fewer random 'tire kickers' to deal with.

[anigbrowl]

That's worth writing a book for. A short, straight-to-the-point guide in simple language would probably sell really well.

[nothercastle]

It’s not though because if you can read the book you don’t need help. The thing most people need help understanding is the intricacies of financing, rates, prepayment, insurance, and warranties that’s not something an average can figure understand .The other part is just getting around the upsell and shopping around. You can research all that online the information is there but most either don’t care to understand or it won’t.

[anigbrowl]

I can totally understand that, but I don't want to waste time figuring out how to optimize it by trial and error if there's a an easily digestible guide that gets me within 95%, because that shit is not fun or interesting to me. I'm telling there's an audience for such a book because I'm it, and you're arguing that I don't exist. Then you put a new edition once every 1-2 years, and call it 'Nothercastle's cary buyer's guide 2025'.

[nerdponx]

Not sure I agree in general. Grinding through hours of research and teaching yourself things from scraps of info is a lot harder than reading it out of a well-structured book. Can't speak for this particular domain but I certainly would appreciate a coherent resource.

[nothercastle]

Yes but unfortunately things change pretty often so idk how you keep everything up to date in a book. Leases need a calculator to compare and reliability and depreciation estimates are also dynamic. You could have a website with a subscription but people hate paying for those.

[OnionBlender]

Buying a car is an awful experience. I once had a Mazda dealership hold onto my keys and license during the negotiation so I couldn't leave.

[setr]

Under what pretense did they get a hold of your own car keys?

[Scoundreller]

Trade-in evaluation?

[camkego]

These services have existed for many years. ie https://carbuyersadvantage.com/faq/

But it takes a leap of faith for me to think my interests are best served with this type of service.

[nothercastle]

I see what you mean, I guess if your friends used it and it worked for them then I could see using it as well.

This place you linked isn’t upfront about their fee structure at all so I’m pretty suspicious. If you aren’t paying for the service your aren’t the customer and this might be the case here.

[EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK]

Just check it visually, kick the tires, and listen carefully how the engine starts up - should be quick and smooth. Pay cash. Now please send me the $500 check.

[nothercastle]

Many people would fail even that but no visual without a lift isn’t enough.

[bombcar]

If it makes you feel better, the Rainbow and the Vector get lots of non-immigrants, too.

And some people swear by the Rainbows because of the water feature.

[lifestyleguru]

> Rainbow vacuum cleaner

There was a wave of this in 90s and 00s but in Poland. In my eyes parents signed a loan for "Mercedes of vaccum cleaners" for an amount of over 2k USD. Average salary back then was something below 700 USD. Fuck this American scammers. Eat shit and bankrupt Rainbow. Rest of the above were occuring as well. People were looking at the west with hope and sympathy, while the west came over with smiling brutal extortionist rape fest.

[delta_p_delta_x]

> parents signed a loan for "Mercedes of vaccum cleaners"

Somehow I think the problem is less the 'American scammers' and more the fact that your lot decided it was worth taking out a loan for a vacuum cleaner, of all things.

[lifestyleguru]

They were in some lunatic trance agitated by manipulative sales tactics. Any other loan they would have research beforehand and actively apply for.

> fact that your lot decided it was worth taking out a loan

Let's use analogy - currently American elderly are aggressively profiled and targeted by various scams starting from a phone call because they are gullible, lonely, and vulnerable. Perhaps they simply decide it's worth to give away 1000-3000 USD here and there? Maybe they decide that few calls with a guy with Indian accent is worth 2000 USD, of all things. Honestly I feel certain satisfaction that it bites back.

[cynicalsecurity]

Jehovah's witnesses is another vile scam that hugely spoiled the image of the West in the eyes of the people who just broke free from the Soviet occupation. I don't understand how such evil and disgusting cult is allowed to exist. If a person would hide a list of thousands of child molesters or would endorse killing children by giving fake medical advice to their parents, they would be put straight to jail. How are cults allowed to do the same without any repercussions?

[to11mtm]

Well it's a nuanced answer. The United States has freedom of Religion, and a large separation of Church and State. It leads to some bad but theoretically some good.

> If a person would hide a list of thousands of child molesters or would endorse killing children by giving fake medical advice to their parents, they would be put straight to jail.

Unfortunately any progress our country has made in this regard has been utterly regressed in the last 5 or so years....

But to better understand the other side of this as far as religion, consider the Catholic sacrament of Confession. A priest is not supposed to divulge confessions to anyone.

Then, let's consider the danger on the other side. Historically, Governments swooping in and grabbing lists of church members, what happened next was not looked well upon.

And so the US has this sometimes almost horrifying level of separation of church and state, where people do have the freedom to worship, however other benefits are abused [0][1] and we even have let folks that infiltrated three letter organizations keep their church status [2]

[0] - I still remember the baptist sermon of "I am not telling you how to vote! I am not telling you how to vote. But the bible says X will go to heaven and Candidate Y does not X"

[1] - Churches do not have nearly the same level of oversight as a normal nonprofit

[2] - "Operation Snow White"

[lifestyleguru]

It's not about some faith nuances, Jehovah's Witnesses are predators and stalkers.

[lifestyleguru]

I used to ignore or look down on them. After they stalked me with some profiling and unwanted weekly visits while I lived abroad, I actively hate Jehovah's Witnesses. They stalk intercoms in the buildings. Another American smiling predators and lunatics.

[Beijinger]

"a) list of thousands of child molesters or b )would endorse killing children by giving fake medical advice to their parents"

I do neither associate with Jehovah's witnesses. Would you be willing to share some details?

[jstarfish]

> How are cults allowed to do the same without any repercussions?

I am not a friend of the JW, but as an adult, you're expected to be your own advocate. You opted in to a system of faith, not science.

Regarding child molesters, any organization that spells out a code of silence in its doctrine is always fun to deal with. The JW are hardly unique with their theocratic warfare, there's also mesirah, deceivers-yet-true, keep sweet, omerta, "snitches get stitches", etc. You can't penetrate such a culture from the outside, so no witnesses testify, hence no repercussions.

[vdaea]

I don't understand this. Why did they sign up for a $2000 loan if they could barely afford it?

[nonrandomstring]

In Prague or Budapest about '88 - hazy now as we were moving about a lot - before the wall came down, but the "thaw" had started. McDonalds just opened a restaurant, first in the city. Anyway there we were looking at this enormous queue... the biggest damn queue I ever saw, It went round the block, and the next block... like how people camp out for black Friday but thousands and thousands of people. Each burger was the equivalent of a few weeks wages. But nothing could stop them, all hungry for a bite of "freedom".

[lifestyleguru]

Meantime porn producers and other creeps were swarming Prague and Budapest to "taste the Communism". Hard to find a woman who was in her teens or twenties at that time who wasn't curious if free market penis is as hard as post-Communist one.

[delta_p_delta_x]

> porn producers and other creeps were swarming Prague and Budapest to "taste the Communism"

A significant majority of white sex workers in Western Europe and porn actresses still tend to be from Eastern Europe—Czechia, Hungary, Poland, Ukraine, Belarus, Russia.

[wruza]

This scam was popular in post-soviet too. Basically a very annoying salesman who reiterates on all sorts of reality bending pushes once you let them in. You may think it shouldn’t work but it does, on people whom you wouldn’t call idiots. As I understand it, it leverages the tendency to respect authority and avoid conflict, among other sales tricks.

There’s an old joke about it:

Salesman: (enters the room and dumps trash on the floor) If our vacuum cleaner can’t clean this, I will eat this trash!

Dwellers: You can start eating cause electricity is off for three days.

[eesmith]

A variation of that joke was in the "Sales Resistance" episode of I Love Lucy from 1953 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVJNQhGpwSw .

At the end, Lucy tries to make her money back by using the same sales techniques used on her. The vacuum cleaner doesn't work because electricity is turned off because the resident hadn't paid the power bill.

[lifestyleguru]

Colleagues in workplace started buying and were receiving commission by referencing next client. Trained salesman visited home and used all dirty sales tricks and pitches. Until now I remember "don't say this vacuum is expensive, this is Mercedes of vacuum cleaners, everyone desires even a substitute of Mercedes", or "a salesman enters someone's home with an attitude that they own him the commission money". You grew up in Communism with an absolute shortage of everything and are unable to evaluate good value in market economy. Fuck this manipulative psychopats.

[AussieWog93]

>Colleagues in workplace started buying and were receiving commission by referencing next client.

You can blame the West as much as you want, but it sounds like Poles were stabbing Poles in the back too.

[lifestyleguru]

In novel free market and democratic ways. That was extremely bitter realization. The reward for hardships so far was a new wave of MLMs, cults, sects, scams, and whatnot.

[cynicalsecurity]

It was still way better than Soviet occupation. But I get it, it was hugely disappointing.

[FpUser]

>"Really wish this existed in the 90's when my family moved to the US from eastern europe."

I moved to Canada from USSR in the beginning of 90s. The scams were plentiful and unexpected. Lucky for me I've followed that golden rule - if it sounds too good then fuck it. Saved me from lot of troubles. Some of my friends were not so lucky.

[EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK]

Every child, as part of his education, should be required to play some MMO with in-game trading, where noobs are routinely taken advantage of, where scams and betrayals abound, as a preparation for real life.

[delta_p_delta_x]

> Every child, as part of his education, should be required to play some MMO with in-game trading where noobs are routinely taken advantage of

So, RuneScape before the Grand Exchange, then.

  drop ur addy and press alt f4
  it will duplicate ur items

  Sending trade offer to double ur gp

[sidewndr46]

Isn't Vector just a weird MLM sales channel for Cutco? It is unlikely anyone will make money off it, but from what I understand it is not impossible. You just won't make money selling knives at least.

[klyrs]

Are you saying Cutco isn't a MLM scam? I've always avoided it like the plague.

[sidewndr46]

IDK, it just seemed like overpriced normal knives to me. They aren't bad knives. But I just sharpen my knives before each use anyways. The $2 knife from wal mart works just fine.

[gambiting]

>>Rainbow vacuum cleaner

Why is that one a scam? We've had one now for over 20 years, my mum still uses it almost daily, as far as I can tell it's built like a tank and will outlast all of us lol.

[forgotmypw17]

Rainbow is worth the money in my opinion. I think the one in my family is at least 20 years old, and it's way better than any other because of the mixing-dust-with-water thing. I've used many vacuum cleaners, including some industrial-grade ones, and none of them can hold a candle to Rainbow. Not needing any consumables like paper bags is a nice bonus.

[mixmastamyk]

Reminds me, tourists as well. I often traveled to a certain location abroad, and never had trouble with taxis etc. Later, two older female relatives accompanied me on a trip, and the first taxi we went on the driver tried two scams on us!

[mandelbrotwurst]

What's the scam with the water filter?

[gnopgnip]

Charge thousands of dollars for a subscription for something you can basically buy at Home Depot for $250

[thecleaner]

Yup Nikola Tesla was another immigrant who was scammed almost hundred years ago.