[ttul]

This implies that their production environment is mutable. As in, a command can run and change the production environment. That’s a no no.

But I give them a pass because they are a young company. My company was similarly reckless early on, but as we scaled, we had to tighten things up and turning to an immutable deployment approach has saved our asses so many times.

[ZephyrBlu]

Is being a young company really an excuse when any half-decent engineer knows these things are bad?

Being a young company doesn't mean you ignore all the mistakes other people have made and figure them out for yourself.

I really surprised someone has access to the prod DB, and that it's possible for them to connect to it in dev (Meaning they have a copy of the credentials???).

[AYBABTME]

Knowing it's bad and punting on it for later are both things that can be possible at the same time.

[syslog]

How does immutable work in regard to databases? As in „we need to add a column“?

[inopinatus]

Someone writes the migration, commits it, it passes the build and unit test stages of the pipeline, then the application as currently running passes all function and integration tests with (and this is important) both the prior and the revised schema. Your commit is tagged as release ready! Not long after, the automation tooling confidently executes the now-tested migration under machine control during the next deploy, everyone goes home happy with your shiny new published_at column, and no-one has directly touched prod.

Two days later the CTO sends everyone a stroppy email about "column bloat that should've been a table", ssh's into the personal instance that they've been keeping alive† since before you had funding and learned to launch servers as immutable black boxes, and whilst trying to prove a point by rolling it back manually, drops all tables by mistake when a cat treads on the keyboard

--

† excuse: "it's for reporting"

[seanwilson]

> Someone writes the migration, commits it, it passes the build and unit test stages of the pipeline, then the application as currently running passes all function and integration tests with (and this is important) both the prior and the revised schema. Your commit is tagged as release ready! Not long after, the automation tooling confidently executes the now-tested migration under machine control during the next deploy, everyone goes home happy

What happens if something goes really wrong after the production deploy? Is there a way to skip steps if you need to quickly push an emergency fix?

[kgeist]

At our company, we have "an immutable DB", too, but when there's a critical emergency (say, full downtime), we can apply fixes manually. In that case, we run the tests after applying the fix.

[RowanH]

Rookie move having the cat on the desk while ssh'd into prod...