[hresvelgr]

> This is good advice that’s well intentioned, but (sorry), it can be interpreted as elitist, and in a way that’s detrimental to the reader.

There's nothing wrong with elitism as long as it leads to initiation rather than gatekeeping.

> My god how I’ve found that working with reasonable people is so much healthier.

Could not agree more. Most people can be trained well to do any job required of them. What cannot be trained, and certainly at the behest of the employer is interpersonal skills.

The one situation where I would prefer someone who is intelligent at the expense of being personable is if I intended to hire 2-3 absolute weapons to be the core of a startup.

[josephg]

> Most people can be trained well to do any job required of them.

I really wish this were true, but especially in programming I don’t think this is the case.

I’ve spent years as a programming teacher. Some of my students have been among the most wonderful, enthusiastic, hard working students you can find. And yet, despite both of us working hard for a year or more, some never develop any talent whatsoever for programming. Statements like “everyone can code” can easily turn into a rod for their backs. - “Therefore if I’m not succeeding like many of the other students, it must be because I’m not trying hard enough, or there’s something wrong with me”. I don’t think this is anyone’s fault. Perpetuating the lie that all our brains have an equal capacity to program is a terribly cruel injustice. Some students would be much better served by finding another career that they can excel at. The faster they figure this out, the better.

Programming isn’t for everyone. It’s hard. Not everyone has the same capacity for it. I believe accepting that is an act of kindness.

[hresvelgr]

> I really wish this were true, but especially in programming I don’t think this is the case.

I should have made my prior assumptions clear. The "most people" I'm referring to are CS graduates or people with IT diplomas and the percentage among those who are trainable to a capacity of competence in most companies are roughly 70%.

> Perpetuating the lie that all our brains have an equal capacity to program is a terribly cruel injustice. Some students would be much better served by finding another career that they can excel at.

When I was still a uni student I used to be a CS tutor in a help desk setting and I especially remember one guy who used to come in a lot. He had a really great attitude despite being humbled by the fundamentals. He used to repeat to me: "Sometimes you have to ask for help when you need it." After that semester I didn't see him again. I also remember a particularly annoying guy who used to come in and waste my time and the other tutor's by bringing in a problem and then solving it himself within seconds of sitting down just so he could talk about how he solved it and how much he knew. The world is not a fair place.

[josephg]

> The world is not a fair place.

Yep. Those two stories are in some amount of conflict. I agree that anyone who has passed a decent hiring bar can be trained to some baseline level of competence. But the difference in capacity between that baseline level and someone brilliant can be huge. And it matters. This is the difference between something being an ongoing issue for the team for months, and it just quietly never seeming like it was ever a problem in the first place. As you say, it’s totally unfair.

[darkwater]

> What cannot be trained, and certainly at the behest of the employer is interpersonal skills.

I think that those can be trained as well. The fact is that just acknowledging the issue requires a level of self-awareness that not everyone has, and training THAT as well requires being aware of it. External input and help from a specialist or a dear friend can get the ball rolling.

[andrewaylett]

If you want a concrete example backing up your stance, consider the letter sent by Hans Reiser, discussed on HN in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39042626.

[mym1990]

Elitism is literally a form of gatekeeping…