[cletus]

EDIT: 48 upvotes in an hour and this submission just jumped from top 10 to second page? WTF?

Honestly, the US is the most invasive government in the "free" world I've had the misfortune to encounter.

I can't think of another developed nation that is quite so overbearing when it comes to foreign income. US citizens who haven't been in the US for 40 years and work in other countries STILL need to report their income to the IRS (as an Australian who lives and works in the US, Australia doesn't care about my income as one example).

The reporting requirements on tax residents in the US (citizens and non-citizens) is absurd. If I fail to disclose my retirement account in Australia, established well before ever working in the US, the US government can technically imprison me and charge me a penalty of 300% of the value of that retirement account (all in the name of "fighting terrorism").

What really doesn't sit well with me is the presumption of criminality that exists in US law (actual and enforced). The presumption of innocence seems to be some kind of anecdote in history.

I know I'll never take up US citizenship. No thanks. I'll stick with Australia/Britain (dual citizen) thanks.

In all honesty the only reason I'm even here is because I want to see it (New York in particular) before it's gone. The US reminds me of the crumbling, dying days of the Roman Empire.

Don't get me wrong. There are many great things about the US. Up until WWI, the US opened its doors to those seeking riches, a new life, freedom from religious persecution and any number of other terrible things in the Old World. In the span of a century (1800 to 1900), the US had turned itself from an agrarian backwater into an industrial superpower, a legacy that has lasted until the present day. The US has certainly played a key part in the technological progress of the 20th century.

But now the government seems to consist of self-interested parties who are happy to persecute citizens of every country including its own. It really seems like it's lost its way and I'm not sure how it comes back from that.

[jakeonthemove]

The law in this case is unjust. Those who don't like it (practically the majority of people) can open a separate company in Hong Kong and keep their foreign money untaxed. Or they can just not disclose the money they make.

Yes, it's illegal - selling drinks was also illegal during Prohibition - that didn't mean it was right.

The US actually reminds me of the relationship between the British Empire and the East India Company - the organization was so powerful that the actual government didn't have as much control over it as they wanted. It's the same with the US gov and its citizens (including corporations/businesses).

I don't know where the country is going, though. Other countries (especially in the EU) are now very close, equal or better than the US when it comes to business and living conditions, so there's really no reason to "switch sides" now.

With a British and Australian passports, you don't even need to think about a US citizenship - it is indeed useless, however if you're from one of the less developed countries , it's still worth it.

[drucken]

The US actually reminds me of the relationship between the British Empire and the East India Company

This is the key! It is the all-pervasive, highest priority plutocracy aspect that is causing the most damage to the US and its image.

When your prime concern is to treat your citizens as a tax fund and then on-top of that misappropriate those precious resources in mainly multi-decade long and continuous militaristic campaigns and development instead of socially cohesive and constructive policies that protect the long-term interests of your citizen base, then it is hardly surprisingly the amount of dissatisfaction caused, especially how citizenry itself is becoming globalised by communication and technology.

Of particular concern is:

* why banks are allowed free reign to cause so much damage without penalty or preventative regulation (e.g. now, subprime is starting all over again except in structured finance commmodity markets),

* why large corporates and high wealth individuals are so permitted to abuse accounting principles to avoid taxation even compared to the rest of the West (where do you think this tax revenue will now be sourced from?) and bypass social or environmental responsibilities,

* why political campaign funding is allowed to be so corruptingly privatised particularly at the non-federal level,

* why (highly funded) private lobbies, even of foreign governments, are permitted to be so powerful against the political system,

* why politicians are so protected in office even when they behave in ways that would be illegal in any other situation (e.g. trading based on inside information),

* the extreme lengths the "multicultural experiment" has been allowed to segregate and ghettoize their citizenry,

* the extreme punishment and lack of tolerance for even the most minor of crimes in the legal system, etc. etc.

Given the above, it is hardly surprising that US citizens are both turning to and incidentally discovering the many benefits of living elsewhere and dissociating themselves from their parent country's government.

[run4yourlives]

Every country has requirements of its citizens. A lot force you to serve in the Armed Forces. The US doesn't do that.

While I agree that the US isn't as welcoming as it once was and has always had an onerous tax code, for foreigners it is still a huge benefit to work and do business there.

The funny thing is that Citizenship in the US has been essentially devalued by non-citizen working categories that have been developed in order to make the economy function. Unlike Europe or Canada, the US as a country doesn't really provide anything substantial to its citizens that make moving from a green card to a full citizen really worthwhile unless you care that much about voting.

Green Cards (or equivalent legal status) are gold though. Save the passports for EU countries or CAN/AUS. :-)

[sjtgraham]

Permanent Residents (Green Card holders) also have to pay tax on their worldwide income, even if they do not reside in the US.

[_delirium]

That's true, but adding some of the obligations of citizenship to permanent residency isn't uncommon, either. For example, permanent residents of Singapore of military age must serve in its military. Personally, I'd rather file a 1040 than attend boot camp, so am pretty happy with my U.S. citizenship, even as an expatriate. :)

[davidandgoliath]

But they can also leave, and it'll expire.

[mahyarm]

PR Cards are canada are pretty close to citizenship. PRs get subsided educations and are treated like citizens for all rights and purposes. Other than voting, political office, passports and other standard citizen benefits I don't know how Canada's PR is any worse than a US PR.

[kamaal]

>>The US reminds me of the crumbling, dying days of the Roman Empire.

Indian here, many of uncles visited US in the 90's and continue to visit even now. One of my uncles is a doctor who is now settled in US. Well as a kid my uncles would often talk to me about the infrastructure, opportunities and great things about the US. So naturally when I grew up I wanted to come to US and work there.

Not anymore, in the past few years the very same people are telling how futile it is to go to US now. How costly the cost of living and health care is, how the common masses are totally out of energy without access to affordable higher education, how china virtually dominates every aspect of the life of a ordinary US consumer.

You can do anything here in India, whatever you could possibly do in the US. Nothing really is impossible today in India and China. You can make the same money, get the same opportunities, buy the same stuff and afford the same luxuries. Many of my friends who went to US to their MS now desperately want to come back to India, the only thing that seems to be holding them back is the education loan.

India looks to be in the same place US was in WWI, tons of opportunities, high optimism among the masses and a lot of young population desperate for success. There is tons of money to be made out there.

US looks to be stuck in needless conflicts, prolonged wars and wasting its energy, resources and wealth on pursuits which are going to give nothing in return.

People generally ask about the resurgence of India and China on the global scene, sure outsourcing is huge factor in it. But US really dug its own grave. If even US had spent half the money its spending on military and wars on development, with the kind of infrastructure US has, it would be unbeatable.

[Bamafan]

"In all honesty the only reason I'm even here is because I want to see it (New York in particular) before it's gone. The US reminds me of the crumbling, dying days of the Roman Empire."

Thank god you got there in time! NYC TTYL is down to 5 years. Probably won't be there in 2020.

"But now the government seems to consist of self-interested parties who are happy to persecute citizens of every country including its own."

When has this not been the case in US history?

Sounds like you buy into the same "in the old days, things were better" pollyanna version of US history many of its own citizens do.

[michaelcampbell]

In the old days, things WERE better.

But that's because in the old days, I was 12.

[nirvana]

Many americans don't seem to understand this because they've grown up in the US media bubble and were educated in US schools which don't tend to really accurately portray the rest of the world.

Going out and living in other countries you find how impressively different things can be.

For instance, an acquaintance of mine who is a medical doctor who treats terminally ill patients, had his life ruined (and is in jail now) because the DEA decided he was writing too many prescriptions. Those same drugs- that he determined were medically necessary and he's a DOCTOR, can be bought over the counter in Chile, and many other countries south of the US border. Walking around chile you don't see a lot of stoners or drug addicts (in fact, I haven't seen any homeless at all) compared to the USA.

Nevermind that the person who decided he was writing "too many" of these prescriptions has no medical training and was doing so based on what amounts to a quota system whereby over time patients are increasingly denied the drugs they need as their doctors become afraid of the same fate that befell my acquaintance. This fear causes fewer prescriptions to be written over all, lowering the standard for "too many", causing those who didn't deny their patients the drugs they need to be prosecuted, installing more few, further lowering the numbers, etc. It is a self reinforcing cycle.

So, please tell me why a doctor had his life ruined for giving his patients- terminally ill, remember- prescriptions for drugs that you can buy over the counter in many countries? Please tell me why the USA is pursuing a program that ensures that ill people are in agony?

It is because the USA has gone off the deep end in certain areas.

Yet attempting to defend this doctor to others who also went to high school with him, mostly got no sympathy. To those americans' eyes he was a "Drug dealer" and a "scourge on society."

[driverdan]

There's a lot more to this story you're not disclosing. The DEA doesn't just imprison someone overnight because "decided he was writing too many prescriptions".

[sjtgraham]

Of course, at no point in history has someone been prosecuted by a government on trumped up charges.

[nirvana]

I guess you're not aware of it, but my acquaintance is not the only one. Many doctors across the USA have been attacked this way.

Here's an article going back to 2003: http://www.opioids.com/offshorepharmacy/deapaindoc.html

Here's one on 2004: http://doctordeluca.com/wordpress/wod-pca/

Doctor's opinion from 2008: http://www.healthcentral.com/chronic-pain/c/91/46424/prescri...

A briefing to congress from 2004, contains many useful references: http://www.aapsonline.org/painman/paindocs2/libbystatement.p...

Doctors shirking their duty due to fear of persecution via prosecution: http://www.doctorgorrell.com/a-bad-time-to-be-a-chronic-pain...

Article about how the fear is causing doctors to resist adequate remedies: http://www.healthsearchonline.com/doctors-prescribing-pain-m...

The white house is calling it an "epidemic": http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/