[sagz]

There's also something fishy about DJI in that their Android app to control their drones is intentionally not listed on the Play Store. I've never seen a manufacturer require side loading.

Anyone know why it's not on the Play Store? (On iOS it is on the App Store, well because there isn't another way till this DMA thing kicks in)

[londons_explore]

The play store is banned in China. So sideloading/alternate app stores are the main way most users install apps there.

Their china-based engineers might not even consider it important to support the play store.

As a non-US citizen, I frequently see how US based engineering teams just don't understand local markets/customs. This is just being on the other side of that.

[BoiledCabbage]

And yet tons of other apps from China seem to make it to the play store. And it's not like DJI isn't aware of how many devices they sell overseas.

It's almost as if it were intentional.

[lazide]

Android isn’t a huge market segment for high end drones, and when it is, it’s almost always purpose specific/dedicated devices. ‘Juice not worth the squeeze’ and all.

[vetinari]

Their dedicated controllers use AOSP under the hood.

But since they control entire device, there's no need for Play Framework, Play Store and whatever is needed for certification just to ship it.

[lazide]

Yup. Aka dedicated devices.

[dheera]

> And yet tons of other apps from China seem to make it to the play store.

The Play Store versions of some of those apps are likely not the same as the side-loaded version.

[dylan604]

It's precisely those differences that make me concerned about what they are doing with the side loaded versions.

[secretsatan]

They recently dropped support for the iOS SDK and stopped releasing new versions, they've been moving away from iOS in general in favour of using their own controllers.

That they don't want to release through the official android app stores for a free app is a bit sus.

[m-p-3]

We clamped down our MDM policies to disallow sideloading on corporate devices, when we asked DJI when they planned to submit their app on the Play Store and they basically told us never, we decided to remove all DJI drones from our fleet.

[neom]

What did you replace the DJI drones with?

[ikekkdcjkfke]

Buy cheap dedicated motorolas?

[bandergirl]

> Anyone know why it's not on the Play Store?

Can’t think of any reason that isn’t sketchy. The article gives a clue already.

If the app passes Apple’s review, then it could pass Google’s review.

[sschueller]

You can side load android, you can't side load Apple (without jailbreak). Having to deal with two review processes instead of just one saves money and headaches. Also since they are dealing with US sanctions they probably had to fill out all kinds of stuff and submit that to Apple which they would also have to do for Google but again, they can just side load instead.

[LoganDark]

> You can side load android, you can't side load Apple (without jailbreak).

Did Cydia Impactor stop working or something? Sure you need a developer account, but then you can use the account to sideload any third-party IPA.

[rnmmrnm]

see Epic suit i guess.

[dheera]

I don't use their app at all, I just use the DJI RC. In any case I wouldn't recommend controlling a drone from a phone running a bunch of background tasks that may pop up notifications and phone calls while you're trying to dodge obstacles.

[dylan604]

do not disturb mode is your friend here, or even airplane mode

[rideontime]

Wouldn't airplane mode prevent you from communicating with the drone?

[zero_iq]

No, it doesn't.

The phone doesn't need to broadcast anything to control the drone directly. The phone talks to the remote control unit, which is what broadcasts signals to control the drone. You don't need wifi or mobile internet, or even bluetooth to fly a DJI drone (the phone connects by cable to the remote control unit).

(Actually, that's not 100% true -- if you're in a locked zone that requires permission to fly (such as near airfields or other protected sites), you will need internet access to start your flight and unlock the zone using your DJI account. Otherwise the drone may refuse to fly into restricted zones.)

You don't even need the phone at all -- the remote unit is quite capable of controlling the drone in flight with the phone switched off.

[dylan604]

why? it just turns off the cell radio. wifi/bluetooth is still enabled, or at least they can be re-enabled if they are turned off.

[rideontime]

Don't people typically fly their drones outdoors?

[Saris]

As I remember their app downloads a binary package after installation from an unknown source, and that's against Google ToS as far as I know.

[malermeister]

Here's a dark conspiracy theory for ya: Consumer drones (including DJIs) are being used in warfare more and more frequently, including the war in Ukraine.

The Chinese government, while not openly supporting Russia, has been repeatedly accused of covertly doing so. Imagine what kind of harm a device used for reconnaissance could do if it secretly works for the other side.

[Staple_Diet]

That's not a theory as much as it is an acknowledged fact, and why DJI are banned from many 5-Eyes facilities.

[L_226]

no even that - DJI are potentially collecting thousands if not millions of hours of telemetry about how small drones are used in real-life combat. This is absolutely invaluable to developing countermeasures or optimising their own offensive platforms.

[tomaskafka]

Also mapping all of the western world, and sending the most detailed 3d maps of western infrastructure to servers of a company that's a part of the chinese military complex.

[sofixa]

DJI's app wasn't on the Play Store for years before Russia invaded Ukraine, so that's somewhat unlikely.

[spacebanana7]

I don't have a source to hand, but I've heard their drones were used in Syria for several years before Ukraine

[sannee]

If my Googling is correct, it seems to have been removed around 2020-2021. Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014 though.

[swells34]

China effectively banned the Play Store in 2010. Your Google-fu leaves something to be desired.

https://cybernews.com/resources/how-to-access-google-play-ap...

[jijijijij]

I very much assume, involved militaries are aware of this possibility and are not blindly trusting Chinese consumer drones right off the shelves, have soldiers in every unit install random sideloaded apps. Lol.

They likely flash verified firmware and use a verified app version, not the latest one from DJI's website... Maybe they have their own code, by now. Especially with reconnaissance drones. The Ukrainians probably need to do this, not just because of the obvious possibility of a "backdoor", but RF adaptability in the EM warfare situation.

I would worry more about contractor John Doe bringing a compromised private phone to a government or industrial facility. Not sure a highres video feed from a drone could be easily exfiltrated unnoticed, anyway, since they usually don't come with WWAN hardware built-in. But the phone itself would be able do all sorts of reconnaissance and become an attack vector in a sensitive context. Then again, this is not specific to drone (software), but all untrusted software people install.

[WhereIsTheTruth]

Are you suggesting we should ban Starlink because it is used in warfare both in Ukraine and in the middle east?

[sverhagen]

If you're very principled about it: possibly, probably, yes?

Otherwise, it might depend whose side you're on?

[travoc]

Hah, everybody is principled until the first bullet whizzes by.

[dylan604]

It's not any different from people that do not shop at WalMart, Amazon, etc because of differences with the corporation. It's not hard once you quit making excuses

[randall]

https://twitter.com/AustingrahamZ1/status/102938549721336627...

[WhereIsTheTruth]

Perhaps i expect too much from ordinary people

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-secre...

[yard2010]

No conspiracy here, just hard cold truth.

[dev1ycan]

To submit an app you'd have to give free access to your source code to a potential rival, DJI is a huge brand, it'd be easy for the US government to basically get access to such code and clone it.

I'm surprised people really think it's anything other than wanting to protect their IP.

[WhereIsTheTruth]

When you are leader in the market, you want to make sure your competition isn't able to reverse engineer your products, including google

[danpalmer]

Why would sideloading prevent Google from reverse engineering the product?

[zakki]

You meant google can't buy DJI product and Android phone to reverse engineer the product?

[squarefoot]

This, and also they still have the firmware which stays in the drone hardware and very likely is where the most important code is. Cloning the app wouldn't give much advantage to a competitor.

[WhereIsTheTruth]

That's the point, they are not forced to remove some protections to please google and whoever is running Google

https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci...

Drone business is important to the military industrial complex

This however is akin to malware development, i wouldn't want to install such software

[nulld3v]

Google accepts obfuscated apps though (even ones that are heavily obfuscated). I've never heard of anyone getting their app rejected due to obsfucation.