[shrimp_emoji]

What if we had cognitive performance enhancers that were deleterious to your health? Let's say they made you twice as smart but cut your lifespan in half. You might not choose to take them. But others would. And now you find yourself functionally retarded compared to those people. Think about how many advantages they get in hiring and personal success for their Faustian bargain. You might just cave and start doing them yourself. And then say even more powerful ones come along -- these make you four times as smart but are even worse for your body. Everyone just game theoretically spirals into the most extreme Faustian bargains.

That's a dystopian concept I've never seen explored anywhere.

Except sports, where the government steps in and makes sure that doesn't happen. ;)

[jdefr89]

As someone who’s been on this stuff for most their life… You aren’t doubling your intellect with Adderall. In fact most tests show that neurotypical people taking stimulants only see a moderate (a couple points on the test) increase. The drug has diminishing returns.

[godelski]

As someone who hasn't been on them for nearly that long, I'll also validate this. I wouldn't say it even makes me smarter in any way. Possibly less so. But what it does is stops my brain from constantly pinging me about things that don't need to be addressed at the moment. It really changed my ability to do work and succeed because I went from everything being an emergency triage hell (from making the bed to the report due in an hour) to actually being able to triage issues.

I can also confirm the diminishing returns and will even state that if I take instant dosages around what people say they do, I'm highly non-productive again. Finding the right dosage level and schedule is still a challenge and varies day to day. There's far too common a myth that you just pop 20mg of Adderall and you can focus for 10hrs straight. Maybe that's true for some people, or maybe even for just people without ADHD, but certainly not true for me. For me it is just like turning down the volume on an alarm.

[downrightmike]

Flowers for Algernon already did it.

[reaperman]

Hopefully a bunch of people who were four times as smart could get together and invent one that does that without reducing your lifespan.

[operatingthetan]

Amphetamines including Adderall are mildly neurotoxic, but that doesn't seem to bother those that take them.

[lghh]

Considering those with ADHD have a life-expectancy that's 13 years shorter than someone without it [1], I'll take whatever mild neurotoxicity you're pointing out in exchange for being less likely to get into a car accident or whatever else I have a tendency to do.

[1] - https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-life-expectancy-video/#:~:t....

[jdefr89]

That is not true. All studies have shown they are only neurotoxic if abused and by abused I mean taking nearly 10x of a normal dose. At that level Of abuse anything is neurotoxic.

[operatingthetan]

>Adderall may have neurotoxic effects in doses higher than the recommended therapeutic dose; however, it may also potentially be neurotoxic in prolonged regular doses over a long period of time.

There is a lot of recent research on this and it does not agree with you.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00747...

[desmosxxx]

I'd say it does agree with OP considering the article used "may" and is followed up by "Currently, there is not enough scientific evidence to support Adderall’s neurotoxicity. Additional research on the effects of prolonged stimulant use is necessary.

I believe OP was saying that neurotoxicity has only been definitively shown in higher doses. Granted I highly doubt no studies show neurotoxicity at lower doses, but it doesn't look to be a settled matter.

[operatingthetan]

https://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/315/1/91.long

>Amphetamine Treatment Similar to That Used in the Treatment of Adult Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder Damages Dopaminergic Nerve Endings in the Striatum of Adult Nonhuman Primates