[echelon_musk]

"The Sanskrit word for mindfulness, smriti, means “remember.” Mindfulness is remembering to come back to the present moment." [0]

"And what is the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma? Just this noble eightfold path: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. This is called the path of practice leading to the cessation of kamma." [1]

[0] Thich Nhat Hanh - The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching

[1] https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN35_145.html

[_z7iw]

hate to break it to you, but that guy is basically a scammer

you should listen to the Buddha who that monk claims is his teacher. The Buddha was very clear that nobody except for himself actually sees things correctly. after all, everybody is already a Buddha, right? Well, one little problem with that is that that is not claimed anywhere by Buddha and quite the opposite actually.

of course, the reaction of people like that monk is to doubt the Buddha and attempt to deceive ordinary people by getting out of such a categorical contradiction. This is how you can know that he doesn't have good intentions or sufficient humility yet. The starting point of true learning is the realization that you're not aware of anything as it is. The only one who is aware of things is the one who is perfectly enlightened. That's the entire problem. it doesn't matter if you doubt it, because you will still be following the law laid out by Buddha, even if it means that he doesn't get the pleasure of your attendance to his lectures.

just because you don't understand what it means that only a Tathagata sees things and neither you nor the monk understand how it could be true, it doesn't mean that it isn't true and that you should go around denying it because your doubt somehow qualifies you, or claiming that such a denial is somehow the teaching of Buddha just because you want it to be, it means that you don't understand it yet and it means that you're not ready yet.

humanity tends to lionize the very same people that they had to murder or isolate just for loving them truly. it makes me feel very bad for the likes of those philosophers

meanwhile, your birthright is basically stolen from you by the trivialization of the reality of the abilities of an enlightened being to perceive the truth of everything, everywhere, on the spot. for example, calling the Dalai Lama a living Buddha and his letting people do so is nothing short of a theft from humanity and a grave sin. if i were to guess, he will probably not be able to reborn as a human. not sure.

The fact of the matter is, the eight fold path is not a path at all. It is a set of results that can be arrived at by some path, which is excluded. They are all results that only a person who has arrived at the result, can actually practice. This is just one example of one of the traps in Buddhism and you didn't even notice it. Neither had i until i met someone who wasn't asleep.

The same goes for the precepts. only someone with a very high level can even distinguish between true and false, in order to prevent themselves from telling a lie. How on earth can it be the path to the result?

and Buddha was not enlightened by meditation. That is a serious misunderstanding. it was when he came down from the mountain and allowed himself to calm down that he realized that he had already achieved perfect enlightenment a long time ago by his former practices.

The four noble truth, do not state that you can end suffering while you are alive. It states that you will suffer as long as you are alive. Suffering is part of being alive. it's only by your repression or by your being invaded by a dead soul, which doesn't experience those things that you can be convinced temporarily that your idea that you can finish your suffering was correct. The only way to do that is to end your rebirths forever. which buddha never recommended. in fact, if you do some more reading of Buddha's own words as recorded in certain of the most advanced texts, you'll see very repeatedly, and very clearly that Buddha admits that he made up the idea of Nirvana or no more rebirths for people who wouldn't have been able to admit that he's actually reborn continuously. he made it up and he confirms that he did as a skillful device. the entire idea of his death was a fabrication of his own. he didn't tell people this initially, because it was quite clear that they were not at the level of cultivation where they could even understand what it means. people are the blind with open eyes. And even if they once regain their eyesight through som method, it doesn't mean that they can then perceive everything, even though they suddenly think that they can. is this starting to form any sort of cohesive picture yet? You've been lied to.

[NemoNobody]

Ok, the Buddha's teachings have been a little corrupted over the years but there is a lot you said that isn't how the Buddha presented things at all.

Plus you seem over focused on enlightenment. This is the best description of enlightenment:

A man was on a quest for an enlightenment and one day he came upon an old man carrying a huge sack of potatoes on his back, struggling under the weight. For whatever, the Man felt that the Old Man had the answers that he sought and he asked him, "Do you know what it means to be enlightened?" The Old Man looked at him and without saying a word he set down the sack of potatoes and stood up straight. The Man looked at him and said, " I understand, I get it - so what happens after?" The Old Man looked at him again and without saying anything he again picked up the sack of potatoes and slowly walked away.

That's enlightenment.

[blueprint]

> there is a lot you said that isn't how the Buddha presented things at all.

especially as you're making such a critically important claim about human life, would you please be more specific about anything that you claim I got wrong. I take this seriously so I would be very surprised to confirm that you're right.

> This is the best description of enlightenment

I don't want to discourage you from talking with me, but I didn't find anything particularly useful and contributive in the story koan.

The definition of enlightenment is to open one's eyes to reality. somebody who is actually enlightened, can tell you exactly how things are in reality and you can check them.

"before enlightenment, it's hard to see the truth. After enlightenment, it's hard to see falsehood"

If you're not enlightened, try to be careful how you speak about the truth because you might accidentally compromise your future happiness and peace.

[NemoNobody]

Ok, this is the best example I can give - you clearly are along the path and have fallen well into the rabbit hole so I'm going to skip a lot of stuff. That story is the entire reality of our lives post enlightenment, it is very significant to understand this - enlightenment is a realization, not a state of being - there is a state we can attain of true clarity and supreme perception that is often referred to as nirvana but it's just a state of supreme focus, it also passes. It's like this.

If this reality was World of Warcraft and you born a dwarf running around whatever that world is called - that would be your life, everything aside the game would matter most, etc. That is your reality. Now along comes another player, they inform you that WoW is just a game and your not really a dwarf, your a person sitting at a computer (or VR or however you need to get it) the Player explains the true nature of your reality and it explains lots of things that you've noticed and feels right.

Then he leaves. Then you are still in WoW, still a Dwarf, still just playing the game. But you know the true nature of things, so you see everything different now, far more correct than you did - you still have no idea of what a person is, so you can't possibly know the actual true nature of things but you know the truth of your reality.

This is why is in the Gospel of Thomas Jesus says, "Those who learn the truth will be troubled" Enlightenment doesn't necessarily even make things easier if you don't truly embrace reality for what it is.

[_z7iw]

I've got a lot of things that I would like to say in reply to you but I can only share some of them.

> enlightenment is a realization, not a state of being

If you say something is "not" a state, that is a state. ... no?

If you say it's beyond words, then it's not.

If you don't know how one might state it, then it's better to be able to know and say so.

> there is a state we can attain of true clarity and supreme perception that is often referred to as nirvana but it's just a state of supreme focus, it also passes

This is not totally true. It is true that karma can be reborn. But who says the "state" has gone anywhere?

What you're referring to seems to be the temporary nirvana - the magical city, for example - made up by the Buddha as he is recorded has having admitted in the White Lotus Sutra of the True Law.

If it were actual rest then you would also be at ease as to the question of how to not let that state pass. And the answer is: omniscience.

But he knew while pacing around his tree that beings wouldn't be ready to accept this, would doubt it, become afraid at it, or exhausted about it, or think themselves not the inheritors of it. So he made up the temporary nirvana as one of the benefits you get from one or more of the "vehicles" he also made up at his tree as a device to lead beings to the time they'd be ready to hear his disclosure that there are no three vehicles, no multiple nirvanas, but the singular Buddha-yana and the one actual nirvana.

> Then you are still in WoW, still a Dwarf, still just playing the game. But you know the true nature of things,

Contradiction. Check out the Diamond Sutra. There are no living beings. What we call living beings, aren't. Actual living beings aren't like that. Quite a good one of his. The Diamond Which Cuts Through Illusion.

> This is why is in the Gospel of Thomas Jesus says, "Those who learn the truth will be troubled" Enlightenment doesn't necessarily even make things easier if you don't truly embrace reality for what it is.

Yessss high five

"If you know the truth, you will be lonely; If you tell the truth, you will be under a curse"

and ... those who know of the true way... do not speak of it as if it is such a great thing.

Things like that.

After enlightenment, someone's life becomes harder. You will be obliged to do things bound by duty being the only one who can see, like a parent, in whose hands the future resides to some degree.

How much more so when you face the ridicule of those of small virtue.

Check out #41 of the tao te ching as well.

Take care

[NemoNobody]

I will revisit both Diamond Sutra and the Tao, this has been a very interesting conversation - I'm unsure I've ever spoke of such things so randomly.

Have a great day!

[NemoNobody]

Everything was essentially made up by the Buddha - he expanded upon the teachings of the Brahmins before him but much of what we think of as Buddhism was made up by people other than him.

Truth is revealed as can be understood. He was limited by the capabilities of those to whom he was speaking, that is evident everywhere in his sayings.

The teachings he left were sufficient for the people of the time but today I think them more a trap than a gateway to truth. There are many aspects of the commonly accepted beliefs that I flat out fundamentally disagree with - the cessation of karma for example. I also believe that Buddha was primarily talking about a singular life when he was speaking about things like reincarnation - we live many lives within our one life, we are constantly changing and being reborn - it is controlling this cycle of rebirth in which we attain our best iteration of ourself.

I'm not sure that I can explain things from a purely Buddhist perspective as I have have lifted from everything the truth I found within and now I have view entirely my own.

The Buddhist teachings will only take you take to you point.

I'm glad you can identify the state of mind I spoke of as whatever he made up - notice I didn't place great significance on it. That goes by many names and were I trying to convince that could not possibly understand but I needed to give them something they could do that could validate, that would have been what I would have given them also, as anyone can attain it with limited effort.

You place too much faith in what you know you know