[mips_r4300i]

The game as shipped on disc will generally already be out of date on launch day, with day 1 updates waiting for download. Over time these have started to comprise the bulk of the game itself.

These days it makes no sense to actually copy anything off the disc when you'll have to redownload the entire (updated) build off Sony's servers.

These might be the last consoles that ever have disc support.

[lostruinsofraku]

My issue is games are going all of the above and they are not any more fun than the older ones. No new gameplay features that require the above either. What about the graphics? None of this requires you to ship incomplete and out of date products to the customer. People talk like this type of behavior is necessary and required to ship a game.

[behringer]

That's too bad. No disc equals no buy. Own or die.

[dangus]

I don’t look at these things in such a black and white way.

Gaming is one of the cheapest hobbies one can have. A $70 AAA game costs less than one mediocre dinner out. And I don’t even personally buy any games at that full price, I try to buy games that cost less than a Starbucks run.

In my entire nearly 20 years gaming on Steam I’ve only spent something like $4,000 on PC gaming software. Steam tells me this in an account report. That’s less than the average American spends on their car in just one year - for a depreciating asset that is eventually worthless.

The percentage of games that have been “revoked” has been minimal. I am aware of some delisted games like a particular multiplayer-only tech demo-ish title that I enjoyed (Shattered Horizon).

My old Nintendo eShop games on previous consoles can’t be redownloaded but they can still be backed up and played and I’ve always received ample advanced notice.

To me, “own or die” is quite dramatic and would be overbearing on my hobby. I recognize that all these experiences are temporary. I can’t go back in time and play Skyrim like it’s the first time I played it. That experience has depreciated. If I go back and play a game like Red Steel it will be pointless because the game is better at representing a point in time in video game development rather than a game that is worth playing in 2024.

Don’t be surprised if the next consoles ditch discs entirely, but my advice to any gamer is to not let that line in the sand stop them from enjoying what they enjoy. Because this hobby is cheaper than basically anything else you can do in real life that is far more ephemeral.

[LtWorf]

> A $70 AAA game costs less than one mediocre dinner out

Either in USA the cost of life is very strange, or you are making up numbers.

At 70$ per person in expensive western europe it would be a VERY VERY FANCY restaurant.

Also eating isn't a hobby.

You can buy a decent guitar for 500€ and use it for the next 50 years. Which can't be done with games you don't own since they disappear.

[acomjean]

For 2 people $70 is pretty middle of the road restaurant in 2024. ($35 a piece)

I went somewhere (slightly) fancy and it was slightly over $100 for 2 people with drinks. I live in an expensive area though (around Boston)

I think in cost per hour games are a great value if that 70$ game holds your attention for 20+ hours. I suspect 500 Euro gets a pretty great guitar.

I guess you spend money where it’s important too you.

[LtWorf]

You normally count per person not per n amount of people.

[happymellon]

Depends. If I'm considering it entertainment, then it isn't unreasonable to think about how much I would have to spend for it to be entertaining.

I don't normally eat by myself and would be paying for my wife to join me, and therefore it's the cost of two meals.

[dangus]

Maybe it’s just my phrasing but I consider the “slightly fancy” places you mentioned ($35/person) to be mediocre, not in the “it was bad” sense, just in the sense that it’s nothing particularly special and that it would be a meal that I could easily surpass at home with my own home cooking.

To me a fancy/good/special meal out is something that only a culinary school-trained chef with access to the restaurant supply chain can actually pull off.

I’m also thinking you didn’t include tax and 20% tip. “With drinks” implies at least two drinks per person? Or are we rationing, one per customer here? Do you tell your date they can’t order another glass of wine or can’t touch the cocktail menu, American light lagers only?

$50 a person with two drinks including tax and tip is like an evening at a chain restaurant like Texas Roadhouse or the Cheesecake Factory. Maybe not even that, you might even have to step down to Olive Garden.

Eating isn’t a hobby but eating out with service sure is.

No matter, this is all pedantry on your part. I already showed you that my ~$250/year gaming budget is relatively modest, and that’s coming from someone who doesn’t ever stop myself from buying a game I’m interested in.

If you have a single Netflix no-ads Ultra HD account you’re spending about the same cost on content you don’t get to keep the moment you shut the subscription off.

Hell, Amazon Prime charges $140 a year for basically nothing and 200 million people eat that shit up for breakfast.

[LtWorf]

You've never been to europe in your entire life, and here is a rant teaching me how I should behave and do things in my continent, a place where you'd stand out like a japenese in southafrica.

[behringer]

> for a depreciating asset that is eventually worthless.

And that's where you lose me. I have games from my childhood I still play. Some of those games are worth many times more than what I paid for them back then.

Video games are art, not a consumable you can charge by the hour for.

[hn92726819]

> I have games from my childhood I still play

I think they are talking about modern games that do not have an endless shelf life like older ones can. With always-on DRM (like the game mentioned in the article), or games tied to an online service (where servers inevitably shut down like GameSpy or Destiny), or older games purchased on a market that closes (like WiiU shop or M$ book shop recently), you effectively lose access to the game forever.

Of course there are exceptions like Battlefront 2 where patches update ancient games or emulators that allow playing older games, but this isn't the norm for PC games.

[dangus]

I’m not saying that I want them to be consumables that disappear from my library.

What I am saying is that, in practice, my digital game library hasn’t worked that way. Even the most egregious shutdowns (ahem…Nintendo) have left me with a way to save my purchases.

And even if I’m screwed over, I’ll still not feeling very screwed over versus the amount I paid and the enjoyment I got. Or even if I’m really screwed there’s probably a trivially easy workaround like emulation.

[coffeebeqn]

The main thing consoles had over PC gaming for me has been that I can buy a used game and then sell it when I’m done with it.

[dangus]

I used to think that way until I realized that basically all games depreciate into dust unless they have the magic “Nintendo” on the box.

Now I consider physical games to be a non-paying tenant in my limited real estate.

[coffeebeqn]

I just sold the FF7 remake for PS5 for over $50. I lost a few bucks in shipping and such but it was a good return for a game I probably wouldn’t play again

[hn92726819]

> No disc equals no buy. Own or die.

You seem to imply here that "disk=buy", but that's not even remotely true anymore. I don't know anything about this game, but it seems like this is yet another one that doesn't work offline [1]. So having the disk still doesn't mean you own it.

There are still games where disk=own of course, but using that as your metric of ownership would be incorrect.

1: https://old.reddit.com/r/granturismo/comments/110chtg/can_i_...

[Hamuko]

I just switched over to PC gaming since I trust Valve a lot more than I trust Microsoft, Nintendo or Sony. My Steam account is 18 years old and I can still download my earliest purchase from 2005.

[PufPufPuf]

There are even better stores in this regard, like GOG or Itch.io. With those, you can just download the DRM-free installers which will work even if the store goes bankrupt tomorrow. Surprisingly many games are available, even some AAAs, not just indie stuff.

[ekianjo]

yes but GOG has recently started to not respect the DRM free aspects by accepting games that have restricted online multiplayer modes. Still they are better than most other stores.

[dangus]

I don’t think they ever had a requirement that every game have no DRM, and I also think that online games are obviously a temporary experience whose very nature isn’t compatible with the idea of DRM-free.

If they can’t ban players and bots they won’t survive.

IMO the paranoid focus way too much on DRM.

[_cenw]

Valve isn't really different, PC gaming is different. Almost all games are available via piracy, no matter if Valve still offers a game. This includes games like the recently unlisted Spec Ops The Line, where the barriers are entirely legal.

Xbox people have said quite openly that the releasing everything on PC is their game preservation strategy a few times.

[dangus]

And you can still purchase new games for PS3 on the console. The only thing you have to do is fund the account elsewhere since Sony doesn’t want to support payment security on the PS3.

[Hamuko]

Only because there was a big backlash. Sony tried to close the PS3 and Vita stores back in 2021 but reversed course.

[dangus]

Even if the backlash and reversal wasn’t there, you’d still be able to play your purchased games and I believe they were going to keep redownloading functional.

[behringer]

Use GOG when you can, it's DRM free (mostly).

[Hamuko]

You can get DRM-free games on Steam too. For example Cyberpunk 2077 on Steam is DRM free.

[kiicia]

It also depends on if patch is incremental or it replaces existing data in bulk