[J_cst]

I'm not morbid with the rules (as said, few and clear) or the pole negotiation. They feel no fatigue to try and move it, but I try to be consistent. Consistency is key as they spot and work on the lack of it very efficiently. I am convinced that you can educate up to 13 years of age latest. After that, I tend to believe that "games are done" (as we use to say in Italy) and they need to work their way out. I will trust on the seeds I tried to plant in them in their first 12/13 years. After that their individuality needs to - and will - be expressed.