[TheFuzzball]

I think we can tell that the App Store wasn't planned that early because if it was the earlier Apple apps would have been using the APIs that needed to be implemented and documented for the first App Store, and they didn't.

Apple today is very different from the Apple that launched the iPhone and the original App Store - they started off thinking all apps could be PWAs, but the Web Platform wasn't mature enough at the time and they pivoted to native, that's the actual truth.

Now they're addicted to in-app-purchase money from casino games and don't want that money moving out of their 30% taxable grasp. It's a sad story, truly.

[a13o]

In the Gamecraft podcast, Mitch Lasky shares an anecdote about Apple asking his team to make apps for the iPod in 2005. Apple then calls them back in 2006 to make games for an 'App Store' on the iPod. Mitch claims this was all a trial run for how an app store would work on the iPhone. [1]

This interaction was with Tony Fadell who had been involved with an Apple smartphone since 2004. The iPhone App Store would launch in 2008. 'Thoughts on Flash' would be penned in 2010.

There's maybe not a straight line march from iPhone to App Store, but the right people had had years to think about how an App Store business would work. And even built a first draft implementation for the iPod. When they ultimately decided on that direction, they weren't starting from zero.

[1] ~29:40 https://gamecraftpod.com/blog/podcast/episode-3/

[philistine]

You’re kind of rewriting history there. App Stores were plentiful on other smartphones. Apple might have needed internal practice, but they knew how the business would work.

And Tony Fadell famously lost the job of making the iPhone. His idea was to use the OS used in the iPods. Jobs instead chose to minify macOS. Fadell then kind of lost his political grip at Apple and left afterwards.

[scarface_74]

Really? You think the casino style games are going to move to PWAs without direct access to users wallets via in app purchases?

If that’s the case, why aren’t all of the same games moving to the web for Android?

[a13o]

The social casino space on mobile is interesting, because everyone basically accepts that their apps are a commodity. Therefore the winners are the ones with the best operations.

SciPlay in particular comes to mind because they have built out their own payment processing on platforms that support it. They explicitly want to avoid headwinds from Walled Gardens making decrees. They would already have momentum if/when mobile platforms allow third-party transactions.

That's not to say they would also abandon the distribution benefits the mobile storefronts offer over PWAs. But payment processing wouldn't be the sole thing that keeps them. This is why Apple fights so vigorously to defend their wall. The benefit isn't innate for players or for developers. Once developers reach a certain level of maturity, the wall benefits Apple at everyone else's expense.

With the recent cracks in the wall caused by Epic, I would expect social casino space to be an early adopter in any alternative payment flows that emerge. But honestly I would expect games in general to react quickly, since Apple is walking in Facebook's footsteps and actively detoxing their games revenue habit in favor of advertising revenue. There's more incentive than ever to build a direct relationship with your customers instead of having to proxy them through Apple.

[scarface_74]

And instead of suing Google and Apple, if the PWA experience was so good on Android, then why didn’t Epic just make FortNite a PWA?

[a13o]

Probably because Unreal Engine doesn't support HTML5 games?

They did the next best thing, which is to sideload the app that UE can build.

[scarface_74]

So no major app developer has been motivated enough to create a PWA to avoid the “Google tax” even though the experience is suppose to be so much better on Android?

[a13o]

I don't get the point you're trying to make, nor do I understand your framing.

Historically using the first-party app stores for distribution & payment processing has been more profitable than doing those things on your own. The second it isn't, people won't use app stores anymore. There's nothing intrinsically good or bad about any of these technologies. They're all a means to an end - profit.

We are headed into the next era of mobile apps. Developers who initially found the app store taxes appropriate during the smartphone boom, are now looking to renegotiate the terms as the market stabilizes. There isn't enough growth to go around anymore and make everyone's shareholders happy, so everyone in the supply chain between developer and user will go to war over what's there and what's fair.

This will slowly pick apart all the unjust contracts preventing developers from pursuing alternatives. And as these contracts fall, other distribution technologies will gain momentum. It may be other app stores installing apks and ipas onto phones, it may be PWAs. It doesn't really matter.

[chii]

It's a distraction to argue that just because PWA is not more common it is useless.

PWA keeps the ecosystem honest. It doesn't have to be the premier platform of choice, but it needs to be a choice available.

[ramses0]

Honestly... the Apple/Safari "pay with Apple Pay" flow is super excellent. I'm literally excited when a web storefront supports "pay with Apple wallet" because it's secure, account-free, and defaults all the shipping addresses, etc. it's extremely low-friction, IMHO.

...now, putting on my conspiracy hat... how difficult is it for n00b-company/developer to get a business license to accept credit card payments (and issue refunds/chargebacks) for SlotMaster9000, versus "I'm and app-store developer, Apple fronts the income-washing and chargeback hassles as a first-line defense.

Literally: what's the difference in setting up a Shopify thingy full of digital-content-tokens and running Apple Pay on it?

Remember that WebGL video-poker thing a few months ago? Wire that up to Apple Pay and what's the difference?

[scarface_74]

Apple Pay is not available in every country, there are more ways to pay through in app purchases than credit cards and parents aren’t going to put credit cards on kid’s phones.

Besides, many people don’t want to pay every random website and they trust Apple.