[viraptor]

I wish that was a joke, but it's Zed so... No, you can't replace customer collaboration with more programming. When you're in a programming hole of misunderstood solutions, you can't fix that by doing more programming. When things keep changing without good reasons, you can't fix that by doing more programming, etc.

[Tabular-Iceberg]

He's not saying replacing customer collaboration with programming. He's saying replace bleeding clients dry under the pretense of customer collaboration with programming.

[viraptor]

He's saying the customer collaboration is just a con for bleeding clients dry and he should just do programming. I read "just" as only/instead in this case.

[Tabular-Iceberg]

As presently practiced they all indeed are cons for bleeding clients dry. I haven't met Zed, but I can't imagine he thinks he can read minds, he must ask at some point what the customer wants to get out of the project. But the endless bikeshedding meetings and piles of useless UML diagrams and other documents is indeed just a scam.

The most absurd thing of it all is that even in-house development organizations behave the exact same way, despite having the exact opposite incentives.

[bruce343434]

When things keep changing without good reasons, you

- tell the client to get their shit together

- fire the client

- walk away