[imadierich]

tbh two different people gain two different lessons being raised this way. your experience is unique. others have went to the military and/or had tough dads and it made them completely better as a person. "bullying" is a natural part of human life. its always up to the person to be courageous and get through. Your personal perspective is apart of current societies views on it...plus your own. there are kids who had no father with no discipline and ended up worse than you likely. choose your battles with parents because the hardest lessons come with the greatest rewards

[yungporko]

i think you're getting discipline and bullying confused, they're very different things. discipline is of course necessary, but going through life walking on eggshells because you don't know exactly what is going to set your dad off but you know it's coming for one reason or another because he's clearly in a bad mood is not having a "tough dad", and does not make anybody better as a person.

in order to hold this opinion, you either have to not actually know what it's like to experience parental bullying, or you have to be in complete denial.

[illiac786]

Very much agree. It is a very common way to justify one's bullying, by calling it discipline. But the truth is, if there aren't any clear rules and it's up to one's mood, then it's bullying.

[daddydearest]

Exactly. The only lesson my dad taught me is to be around him as little as possible, and to be as invisible as possible when I did have to be in the same room with him. I never knew what would make him explode.

[jraph]

Absence of bullying doesn't mean absence of discipline.

In no situation bullying is a good thing. Bullying is devastating and an unhealthy way of teaching things.

You comment is basically saying "bullying didn't work on you because you were too weak". That's borderline victim shaming and completely insensitive.

Courage has nothing to do with coping with bullying, and you should not need courage for daily interactions with your parents who ought to be your support instead.

You need validation and constructive criticism to grow and bullying is kinda the opposite of this. This validation and constructive criticism will give you the chance to build up self confidence which, in turn, may also you to grow a "thick skin". No need for bullying, which usually takes away your self confidence.

[danielheath]

> Absence of bullying doesn't mean absence of discipline.

If you're caught and punished immediately every single time you do X, you develop the internal discipline to avoid doing X almost instantly. A mild punishment is ample in this case - for many children saying "you know that isn't right" is sufficient.

If you're caught only 10% of the time you do X, whether the punishment is mild or severe, the lesson is "don't get caught". No severity of punishment is a deterrent to those who do not believe they will be caught.

Essentially, if kids aren't being called out for misbehavior reliably, it doesn't matter how severe the punishment is (because kids have poor judgement & don't think they'll be caught _this_ time). If they _are_ being called out for misbehavior reliably, they know they aren't going to get away with it - so the punishment only needs to be unpleasant enough to make a poor trade for whatever advantages the behavior has.

Further, parents occasionally mis-identify the situation and kids get falsely accused (when perhaps a sibling actually did it). A severe punishment undermines parental authority in a way that a "I'm disappointed that this happened" conversation does not.

I'd argue that this makes what's typically referred to as "parental bullying" the opposite of effective discipline training. Severe punishments handed out haphazardly teach you not to be identified as a culprit.

[saltcured]

To make matters worse, it's a whole spectrum rather than some clear delineation between constructive discipline and psyche ruining abuse.

On the constructive end, you have feedback and learning that can improve someone. It reinforces healthy feelings encouraging positive and discouraging negative behavior, both for the individual and for their expectations of others.

On the destructive end, randomized punishment leads to neurosis. Without any proper correlation between actions and consequences, the recipient develops fear and agitation without any useful training on how to improve outcomes. As I recall, this is a textbook result even in lab rats. It doesn't require the complexity of the human psyche.

In between, you can still have things like PTSD or the "walking on egg shells" mentioned upthread. In this broad gray area, one might at best learn avoidance of abusers or toxic environments. Or one might infer that they are punished for their mere existence, which could channel into all sorts of detrimental coping strategies.

Another result can be generalized anxiety. One might learn that the world is just full of random threat, rather than taking the more personal view that the abuse is punishment focused on the self.

[jraph]

I more or less agree, and I'm not sure to identify your stance wrt to bullying / punishing, etc.

In any case, for me, calling out your child's bad behavior is not bullying the child.