[kdtsh]

Important to note that it’s not hard or swimming against the current - you just use the nonguix channel, which has all of those things and is a perfectly acceptable use of the system (it’s what channels are for) - but it’s not in the default installation.

[ducktective]

>you just use the nonguix channel

Opened up https://gitlab.com/nonguix/nonguix. Literally the second sentence in the project information section, top of the page:

"Please do NOT promote or refer to this repository on any official Guix communication channels."

Weird thing to say something like this there. Too ideological for someone who wants to get stuff done.

[bheadmaster]

It makes sense to me.

They don't want to compromize their mission - which is to provide a fully-free operating system. But they recognize that, at the current moment, non-free software is required for many users. So they maintain an unofficial repository for non-free software, and avoid endorsing or promoting it on the official channels.

> Too ideological for someone who wants to get stuff done.

The maintainers of Nonguix are mostly the same people working on Guix, so you can expect the same amount of ideology :)

[Modified3019]

This is what ultimately bounced me away, along with seeing some negative interactions others had. Sure I might not end up with problems, but I’m going to choose to believe them when they tell me the official communication channels will be hostile to me if I do have problems that need the unclean fixes.

Which is a shame, because I think there are some technical things which guix does better, but I find it’s more important to not have to worry about saying the wrong things in the wrong places when troubleshooting basic issues like what I get with the nix community.

[rekado]

That's an unfortunate take. "Unclean" is your choice of words, not ours. There is no hostility to people who use proprietary software, nor is any kind of judgement of other people's computing purposes and habits warranted.

Personally, I avoid proprietary software where I can, but I've found myself in many situations where I'm made to use it. But that's really the point: the free software movement's goal is to create a world in which people are no longer compelled or coerced or forced into being mistreated by proprietary software. You don't need to subscribe to these values, of course, but it is unfortunate if you experience this goal as a personal judgment. Keep in mind that one of the four software freedoms is the freedom to use software for any purpose you want --- judgement of users would be a completely misdirected emotion.

Having said that, the Guix project's communication channels simply aren't for proprietary software. The Nonguix communication channels are. The HPC channels are. You will likely get redirected to those communication channels if you ask about proprietary software on Guix project channels.

[kdtsh]

I wouldn’t say it’s too ideological for someone who wants to get stuff done. To get stuff done with Guix, you just go do it and it won’t get in your way - the project channel and the nonguix channel won’t interfere with each other, they’re just different channels.

Directions for using Guix in practice (i.e. with some non-free software) could definitely be easier to find, especially if you start green and don’t know what you’re meant to be looking for. But the system won’t get in your way.

[davexunit]

I agree this policy should change but I and many others get stuff done just fine.

[davexunit]

Yeah I second this. I use the nonguix channel for my laptop. Very well supported and easy to use.

[Filligree]

It's (deliberately) difficult to discover. I tried GuixSD once, and bounced off it because of the apparent lack of support for my hardware, CUDA, Pytorch et al, which isn't an uncommon story apparently.

Now, seemingly there are channels that would deal with this. But when I asked through the official channels, I was told not to do that -- that is, "don't use nvidia dummy", which really isn't an option. I was never pointed to the non-free channel.

[kdtsh]

I agree with that - directions for how to use Guix in practice, i.e. for someone who isn’t a GNU warrior using 15 year old hardware because you don’t need non-free blobs, need to be easier to come across.