[hajile]

    (set x (list 1 2 3 4 5))
    (for item in x 
      (do stuff to item))

Now try to explain BASIC, but do it by first explaining how to create and manipulate a block of memory.

You are conflating language differences with the real argument which is the decades-old debate about whether introductory courses should be practical or rigorous.

[peterhi]

But that is my point. When trying to teach Lisp they would teach you all about the 100 ways to chop up lists without showing you why you would even want to. Your example would not have appeared until the 4th or 5th lecture and would have required the definition of a recursive function (two lectures on recursion alone) to achieve the same thing

And as for BASIC why would you need to "explaining how to create and manipulate a block of memory". This is not something that the BASIC programmer needs to know to write a program

This is just the sort of elitist crap that gatekeeps becoming a programmer. You can drive a car with only the most superficial understanding of how a car works and it does not affect your ability to get from A to B effectively

The answer to this decades old debate is simple, after each lecture the student should be able to do more than they did before they entered the room. At the end of the course they should be capable of teaching themselves from the available resources