[palata]

> If PWAs win, it will be because native apps failed.

Or because the vast majority of people who "write code that runs on mobile phones" know web technologies and not the mobile ones. Web programming is simply more accessible.

The thing is, "more" is not always "better".

[smoldesu]

None of that really disagrees with what I said. Apple failed to lower the on-ramp for native development to the people that wanted it. Now we're seeing desperate porting attempts to the browser, and Apple's desperate attempt at plugging the gap.

> The thing is, "more" is not always "better".

In the free market, competition is king. "Better" is decided by pitting it against "more".

[palata]

I wasn't saying I disagree :-).

> Apple failed to lower the on-ramp for native development to the people that wanted it.

And they don't have to, IMHO. It's not that hard to learn how to do native iOS dev, and Apple is making a ton of money from those who do. Apple not wanting to go out of their way to lower the bar to a point that they don't find profitable is their choice.

> In the free market, competition is king.

I am not sure I am seeing "free market" and "competition" with PWAs, where people lobby to get laws to help them pass their ideas. The free market alternative would be for PWAs to get so good on Android that Apple decides to embrace them.

[paulddraper]

> It's not that hard to learn how to do native iOS dev

Brb gotta go get a whole new computer

[palata]

Well if you develop an Android PWA without having a single Android device to test it on, then maybe you should not develop an Android app at all. Same applies for iOS.

[paulddraper]

1. Android emulators exist.

2. It's not crazy to require a ___ device to develop ___ apps. But are you honestly claiming you can develop iPhone apps with an iPhone?

[palata]

If you don't want to develop for iOS, then don't. I don't see why it should be written in the law that Apple has to make it appealing to you.

[sccxy]

You can use free Android Studio with free emulators with macOS or Windows (maybe even Linux?)

Cannot say the same about iOS emulators.

[DANmode]

Android emulators for development are:

1) mostly free

2) ...even somewhat available on iPads!

Is it even necessary?

Safari seems to be the only odd one out that can't even properly implement CSS, out of the top 5 modern browsers.

I'm super glad all of these ridiculous "arguments" are being put on display.

[palata]

Can I run an Android emulator on my musl-based system? Can I even run Android-Studio on OpenBSD? What about Plan9? Should I complain to Google because they don't support all the platforms under the sun?

If I want to develop with Qualcomm boards, I need to sign all sorts of NDAs, and they don't even have emulators for development. Do you think that should be illegal?

I wish we tried to honestly make the difference between what is an inconvenience ("I don't want to need a macOS system to deploy on iOS") and what is abuse ("Apple removed my app from their Store because it was competing with theirs").