[graphe]

I hated it at first but having wireless headphones is awesome. I haven’t missed my wired headphones at all since I got galaxy buds+ with 11hr per use. I tried the newer better sounding buds 2, the low battery life is atrocious (4hr).

You can always use a BT repeater for headphones too, I went that route at first along with dongles and gave up. I miss it but I moved on, reluctantly.

[wongarsu]

The thing is, you were already able to use wireless headphones on phones with a 3.5mm jack. Removing it didn't add new capabilities, it only removed a feature many people liked in a thinly veiled ploy to get everyone to buy Airpods. Sure Airpods are great, but my wired headphones were great too, and in many ways better.

[The_Colonel]

Headphone jack represents an opportunity cost - including it means you can't use the volume for e. g. baterry, camera or simply nothing (making the phone smaller).

[user_7832]

I don't think that's happened in practice. If anything in recent times the smallest phones are getting bigger, and truly small phones (like the iPhone minis) no longer exist.

[The_Colonel]

So you think that the space which was previously occupied by headphone jack is now a hole of empty space within the phone?

I don't believe that, either the space is used for something else, or the phone is in some way made smaller.

[user_7832]

Possibly not for many phones, but don't forget, the innards of phones get rearranged a lot between generations at times, and the only thing that can easily change in volume is the battery.

Fo if you consider a phone with say an 8 hour battery life, I would imagine the extra space of a jack gives maybe 10? 20? minutes of battery life? while adding an extra layer of complexity viz. Bluetooth (wireless interference, potential pairing and charging issues etc).

To extend the analogy, would you be okay if laptop manufacturers removed LAN ports as wifi "works just as well"? (Wifi is likely probably much closer to ethernet, unlike BT/3.5mm.)

BTW, some devices like iPads that don't have cellular slots... have a plastic shim/object in that place. So sometimes it isn't empty space, it's worse - it's (marginally) extra weight.

[toastal]

Sony’s Xperia line is some of the smallest & lightest flagship phones while having a headphone jack and a microSD slot (& can unlock unlike Zenfones) so I don’t think these are good excuses.

[The_Colonel]

Does microSD slot and headphone jack take volume? If yes, this volume can be used in a different way.

[toastal]

The microSD doubles as a second SIM slot so no, not really. 3.5 mm jack doesn’t get in the way of anything & I use it more than 50% of my time when the screen is on so it more than makes up for the space. I don’t know many devices competing @ 157 × 68 × 8.2 mm (6.18 × 2.68 × 0.32 in) & 168 g (5.93 oz).

Additionally they threw in 2 extra side buttons that can be used for the camera but also mapped to other functions—like for me that is the push-to-talk button for Mumble.

[rcxdude]

I think the point is that this repurposing doesn't seem to actually result in any tangible benefit to the user.

[kiba]

I have hearing aids. They double as my earphones. Why would I want plug in headphones?

Granted, this is a weird edgecase.

[user_7832]

It doesn't apply to you, but it applies to 99% of earphone/headphone users.

[graphe]

We’re having 2 different conversations.

I’m talking about adapting to new phones, you’re talking about why headphone jacks are good.

[bheadmaster]

You're not having 2 different conversations, he's raising a perfectly good point.

Your argument is "new thing is good".

His argument is "new thing existed before old thing was removed, so removing old thing didn't make new thing better".

[justsomehnguy]

It's always amusing to hear 'but now when I was deprived of 3.5 I'm happy with a wireless headphones!'.

I used a wireless headphones when some of HN visitors didn't even exists, I have a plenty of experience with them. No, I'm not happy with wireless headphones, partially because my old-style wired headphones works always. Not just 'always, though sometimes I need to re-pair them, or find the charging case for a super-mega-fast-charge for 10 minutes, or find the left one despite I swear I placed them both in the case' but always.

[krisoft]

If we are entertaining each others with stories I can tell you about the pains of untangling wired headphones or the fact that all my headphones failed due to a "contact" issue the jack developed. Or the number of times my headphones got yanked because I was walking with them on and the cables got entangled in something.

Or how with wired headphones one needs to remove to be able to step away from the computer, while with a wireless one I can keep listening anywhere around my home.

[toastal]

There are ways to wrap cables so they don’t tangle. Many IEMs & hearbuds come with a carrying case like a Bluetooth pair might (without fire hazard of batteries). Wrapping up cables ‘correctly’ plus keeping them stored tightly in a container is a recipe for no tangles. If I know you are going to moving up & down often, I opt for using my pocket DAP that can support two-way Bluetooth transmission + USB DAC so I can freely move around & unplug--but more often I just replug them into my phone or DAP when doing another task, then the plug IEMs back into my laptop or audio interface when I return.

I had used a pair of wireless earbuds for a year & I can’t tell you the number of calls I had to cancel early due to listening to music earlier & now not having enough charge. I’ve also had botched firmware upgrades & an app with trackers needed to installed just to get those updates, something analog didn’t deal with. The technology is far from the total-upgrade you are pitching--especially when all your digital apparatuses have a jack, the analog convenience of pulling the plug from one to the next without the fiddling of Bluetooth menus.

[justsomehnguy]

> about the pains of untangling wired headphones

First world problems. Also they still can work, so in a pinch you can just insert them tangled.

> all my headphones failed due to a "contact" issue the jack developed

If all your headphones are susceptible for this then it looks like the problem is not in the headphones.

> Or the number of times my headphones got yanked because I was walking with them on and the cables got entangled in something.

Yep, they are wired.

> one needs to remove to be able to step away from the computer

Yes, they are wired. Are you annoyed what you need to stand up to step away from computer?

Wired headphones has some disadvantages compared to wireless ones, but the problem lies again in what Apple said 'fuck you consumers you will eat it and ask for more', consumers ate it and asked for more and idiots followed the suit, too.

You know, BT (if we are talking only about phones) headphones are an old thing, 20 years if we count only BT EDR. All^W Most of those years anyone could choose the tech they like more. But now Apple fanbois and you tell me what I need to ditch my wire headphones, because wireless are working better for you. No, it doesn't work better for me. More so, I tried it multiple times and I can surely tell what it's not not just as an opinion, but backed by my actual experience.

And I love what I can forget my headphones for a month and they would still work even if I forgot to charge them the last time I used them, lol.

NB: the last year I smashed my phone up to the broken screen, first time in my life (Ericsson A1018 doesn't count, it was only a battery cover clip). I smashed it not because it was laying on the table while I stepped away with my headphones already inserted both in the phone and my ears, but because I was quite drunk (or more like drunk AF) and didn't noticed that. Is this a table problem or my phone problem (hey, only 1+ meter high!) or it's my problem? While it wouldn't happen with a wireless ones, the common sense says it's not the headphones' fault.

[2024throwaway]

> First world problems.

In a thread about modern cellphone technology is _hilarious_.

[justsomehnguy]

Yes, I knew that when I wrote that comment.

Thank you.

[krisoft]

> First world problems.

Second actually. But not sure how cold war allegiances have anything to do with the topic in question.

> Yes, they are wired.

That is the point. If we treat the downsides of one technology as given and baseline then of course the other technology will look deficient compared to it. But if we look at the pros and cons of both technologies we might see why people prefer one to the other.

> Apple said 'fuck you consumers you will eat it and ask for more', consumers ate it and asked for more and idiots followed the suit, too.

Not really classy calling people idiots. Especially when you are just chatting with someone who is taking the point of view you are calling idiotic.

> you tell me what I need to ditch my wire headphones,

Done no such a thing. You do whatever you want to and I'm wishing you the best with it. I'm merely explaining why I prefer my wireless headphones. You know, just comparing notes on existence among fellow travellers.

> I love what I can forget my headphones for a month and they would still work even if I forgot to charge them the last time I used them, lol.

I will give you that. That is a bummer. I walked today to the shop an wanted to listen to my DnD podcast and my headphone announced that it is running low on battery. I was worried it will cut out on me and I will have to wait before I can learn how the intrepid heroes deal with the nightmare king. Luckily it kept working for the walk. But yeah that is a bummer.

[ambichook]

pros and cons exist yes, but the core issue is that with a lot of phones you dont really have an option to choose which pros outweigh the cons, you're told to suck it up and use bluetooth.

i love my wf-1000xm4s, but i also love my catos, which played a large factor in why i chose the phone i did, the choice to pick one or the other depending on how i'm feeling matters to me. i dont want bluetooth audio to go away, but at the same time i dont want wired to go either. maybe one day i'll get a dedicated DAP and be able to freely pick whatever phone without suffering as much of a consequence but in the meantime thats too expensive and bulky for me to justify

[signatoremo]

> you're told to suck it up and use bluetooth.

Told by whom? You can still get wired earbuds for iPhone, just that they don’t use 3.5mm jack. Even Apple offers ones.

3.5mm jack don’t seem to be missed at all by the majority of consumers. If you are in the minority there can still be options. Plenty as the matter of fact. Cost you money of course.

[justsomehnguy]

> cold war allegiances

>> first world problem (noun)

>> A frustration or complaint only experienced by privileged individuals in wealthy countries.

> But if we look at the pros and cons of both technologies we might see why people prefer one to the other.

But if you take out the 3.5mm jack out of the phone then the comparison is moot.

> Not really classy calling people idiots

Sometimes it's needed to tell the king about his new clothes.

> Especially when you are just chatting with someone who is taking the point of view you are calling idiotic.

Only if you take it to your heart, which you shouldn't. I don't think you are responsible for Apple decisions. Though if you are defending that decision then...

> Done no such a thing

Not you personally, of course, but it's a common thing among people. The thread started on that comment.

> I will give you that. That is a bummer.

Yes, pro and cons.

I've outlined the pros of a wired headphones what works for me. It doesn't mean what everyone should throw out their wireless ones, but that also means what I would defend the presence of 3.5 jack in the smartphones, especially if the absence is dictated by a moot 'we need it thinner' logic. Especially if the company what did that boasts about it's ability to bend the technology to pack the things in a slab plastic and aluminium. Surely that company could find a way to pack a 3.5mm jack in a 7.8mm deep phone. Just like thay did it in that device, 5.4mm deep: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP656?locale=en_US

[user_7832]

While wireless headphones do have some convenience, it's not necessary to lose a 3.5mm jack to use them

[BriggyDwiggs42]

My car is from 2013 so its bluetooth doesn’t work, which has caused hours and hours of annoyance over time as the phone dies on long trips or the fragile dongle breaks. I would much prefer to have the option when i purchase the phone rather than having apple’s vague, utterly useless futurism shoved down my throat.

[htrp]

> I tried the newer better sounding buds 2, the low battery life is atrocious.

Or you could have wired that last as long as your phone battery does.

[sandworm101]

>> having wireless headphones is awesome. I haven’t missed my wired headphones at all since I got galaxy buds+ with 11hr per use.

No. Wireless buds are evil. They get lost. They loose battery life over time, usually asymmetrically. And then there is the horror of "pairing" Bluetooth devices without a proper interface, holding buttons down and such. I love my Sony over-ear noise cancelling headphones, but when away from my desk I opt for wired devices every time.

[ToucanLoucan]

Honestly I would've agreed with you wholeheartedly at the time they took away the jack, but several years on, I'm good with it. I've owned both the original AirPods and the original PowerBeats and now have a Sony WX headset for when I don't need buds. I've lost one... I left it on the hood of my car, unfortunately, my own damn fault and I was able to get a replacement ordered from Apple. Apart from that, never lost em, and in the odd event I forget to charge them, putting the powerbeats at least on a USB lead for about 5 minutes will get me roughly 70% charge into both beats, even if the case is dead, which is enough for several hours of playback time.

I thought I would miss it, but I genuinely just don't give a shit about the lack of audio jack.

[scarface_74]

Horror of pairing? You mean you don’t just open your case, click a button on one of your devices and it’s not automatically paired to all of your devices connected to your login?

[jayknight]

My problems with bluetooth pairing tends to be with bluetooth speakers and cars. Cranking up the car and all of a sudden being on the phone with whoever my wife (in the house) is on a call with is pretty weird.

[HideousKojima]

Also my car prioritizes connecting to my phone even though my wife is usually the "DJ" on a drive. And disconnecting my phone after we've already started driving means my wife has to get my phone out of my pocket/lap and turn off Bluetooth since the car offers no simple way to do so other than outright unpairing my phone.

[jayknight]

That rough, our cars (both 2010s Toyotas) give a way to switch between phones, but it's about 4 button presses and 20 seconds to do that. It seems a car should be be capable enough to have multiple phones connected, and they would all just appear as sources you could switch between. Some probably do, but obviously no 2010s Toyotas.

[scarface_74]

Yeah Thad’s definitely a thing. Reason #3462 I won’t buy a car that doesn’t support CarPlay

[sandworm101]

"automatically paired" = waiting a random 5/10/15 seconds before all three devices agree to talk to each other. Then one of the three gets angry at the other two and I end up listening to music in my left ear as the little girl in my right ear says "pairing" and "disconnected" every few seconds.

[scarface_74]

That’s why I have AirPods (expensive) and Beats Flex (disposable $69). Those aren’t issues I deal with between my iPhone, iPad, Mac, AppleTV and Apple Watch…

[graphe]

You sound emotional. Wired headphones are sometimes cheaper and may sound better. They are not immune to loss, asymmetry, or horrors such as pulling your phone when it’s snagged and causing your phone to drop.

[mulletbum]

People like to complain, that is why this is still a complaint.

There is only one situation where wired is needed: Charging and Listening at the same time.

Otherwise, people can still use wired headphones all they want, especially now with USB C headphones. Even charging and listening at the same time can just be done with a splitter.

The premise is just a talking point because people want to use AUX. Well I still want to use VGA, doesn't mean they should be putting them on video cards.

[nirvdrum]

Off the top of my head, here are some reasons people still want a headphone jack:

* Invested in quality audio equipment that they'd like like to continue using without a crappy dongle

  *  Bluetooth dongles don't have the same level of integration that EarPods do, for instance (e.g., button presses don't work the same way)
  * Lightning or USB-C headphone adapters are easy to lose track of
  * Lightning or USB-C headphone adapters are awkward sticking out of your phone and risk breaking the port

* Dislike the environmental impact of trashing perfectly fine equipment

* Dislike like the environmental impact of moving to a model of disposable equipment with non-replaceable batteries

* Tired of the inconvenience of dropping wireless ear phones and not being able to find them (e.g., this happens frequently on flights¹)

* Weary of dealing with Bluetooth issues (e.g., my AirPod Pros randomly disconnect from my iPhone with regularity and I have to click multiple things to switch from my phone to my work laptop)

It's fine if these don't apply to you, but they're a little more substantive than the Luddite hand-wringing you suggest.. And for them the trade-off to get a slightly slimmer phone wasn't worth it. That's not to say there aren't advantages to wireless headphones, but supporting one doesn't mean having to preclude the other.

¹ -- https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/16uuyse/...

[ozzmotik]

another reason, namely the reason that I specifically do not use wireless headphones:

due to the nature of wireless communications, real time audio is effectively impossible and as such there is almost always some amount of noticeable latency when performing tasks that rely on real time audio (eg music production). a little of latency is okay sometimes but the amount that wireless devices introduce is typically on the offer of maybe 100-200ms and when you're trying to play a section or some such it makes it damn near impossible to hit a note on the mark you're aiming for.

[graphe]

Your comment is actually probably one of the most relevant ones, I was thinking who cares? You're not producing music on your phone.

On long calls, I will have delayed audio or glitches, sometimes from facetime, or the network but because of your comment I tried to use the speaker and it was better. I'll try disconnecting them occasionally thanks to your comment. Thanks!

[tzs]

> Invested in quality audio equipment that they'd like like to continue using without a crappy dongle

They likely can get better audio with a dongle.

All audio sources on a phone are digital. When you use headphones with a built-in jack the analog outcomes comes via a DAC and amplifier built into the phone.

When you use a Lightning or USB-C dongle the DAC and amplifier are in the dongle.

If the former case you are forever limited to the quality of the DAC and amplifier built into the phone. In the latter case there are higher end options available.

[toastal]

In 2024, most built-in DACs on a phone costing more than $200 new (so not picking bottom-barrel parts) is going to be of similar quality from a human-perception perspective. If anything a cheap dongle is more likely to have a PoS DAC. And even still, a lot of DACs will suffice for like an audio cast & provide a lot of convenience, but that wouldn’t prevent you from using a dongle DAC for a difference audio setting--even with the dongle’s downsides.

[wkat4242]

The thing is that Jack headphones are so ubiquitous. When you forget your plugs or the battery is dead you can just grab a wired set for 3 bucks.

Forgetting doesn't help with adaptors which aren't really standardized, especially the passive ones. And the active ones are expensive..

My work phone still has a jack plug. I don't use it much but the times I do use it I'm really in need of it because I don't have anything else to use.

[graphe]

I often use my Bluetooth headphones when my phone is charging, often in the next room. ;)