[mihaaly]

I have tendency to hope for unrealistic things too. Not a reliable trait of mine, no. But in my clear moments I am afraid that much sooner will come the world peace and union of all nations and religions than unimaginative but determined bean counters learn from millions of catastrophes of the past and future to come giving up pushing their core value and first rule of 'take more, give less' into the infinity and beyond. And giving up their personal wealth with it.

[zmgsabst]

I think the hope is people of good conscience stop being political cowards.

If you believe in quality engineering, but refuse to engage in the political and business dimensions of an enterprise to fight for that view, then you are just virtue signaling — since you’re refusing to engage with the tools needed to make it happen.

[mihaaly]

It is always refreshing to meet fellow naives like yourself, I like the company of the likely minded!

Engaging in today's political theatre and culture (that is the keen slave of forceful bean counters/collectors btw.) with the prediction of constructive advancement for the quality of life, that is some very hardcore stuff! Even for me.

(what I can do beyond raising voice is to show example rather than piss into the headwind hurricane. and hope others will follow, or I can follow. but definitelly not replacing my inner Gandhi with Rocky in a blink and getting into a fistfight with scores of agressive pro boxers simultaneously who are itching to run over anyone in their way. also I can avoid the products of those bean people, not feeding them with my purchases or assistance any way, encouraging others doing the same. vermins should starve, not bloom!)

[zmgsabst]

I meant in the practical senses:

- learn to make your arguments in terms that appeal to the sensibilities of bean counters, not engineers

- learn to manipulate documentation so they’re forced to record overriding good engineering in a way that’s discoverable

- learn to identify key political players and address their desires, rather than appealing to “doing the right thing”

Etc.

All things that I’ve done poorly at various stages of my career — and seen other engineers struggle with as well. Much like being a manager requires training and education, so does being an effective advocate for engineering to the wider organization.

Or to borrow your analogy, if every engineer is afraid of boxing, then can we be surprised their views go unheard?

[lazide]

First, being cowards this way would need to stop being the wise choice to make.

[pooper]

At a minimum, we must abolish the right to work at a federal level. Sounds so terrible, doesn't it? Pooper is against the right to work. Pooper wants to take away jobs. No, we can't have that because of politics. And thus, we are stuck.