[asdfasdfasdf222]

The real issue is Canada's demographic decline. Immigrants were brought in to fill that gap and pay for pensions and other goodies that expect a growing base of tax paying productive workers. We're not getting rid of these people, they will become citizens if they choose to. Personally, I doubt that any announcement by the government will be anything but a temporary hold, to be returned to high levels post-Liberal election victory. All of these people have already been educated (to varying levels of quality) so on paper, they fill out the population pyramid.

The problem is the policy driving it is bad. Rather than high-skilled workers, we're letting in low-to-mid-skilled young people. On paper, this plugs the demographic hole. But a lack of planning on infrastructure (housing, etc.) means that prices of those assets has gone through the roof. This has created poor economic incentives to invest in labour intensive industries and housing rather than the innovative, productive part of the economy. What happens when you want to open a software company but can't find workers? Maybe you open a house painting company instead, if the money on offer is high enough.

We shouldn't blame the immigrant -- they are trying to improve their lives. But you definitely can blame poor policy.

[office_drone]

> Immigrants were brought in to fill that gap and pay for pensions and other goodies that expect a growing base of tax paying productive workers.

This is not true.

1) Immigrants are not brought in with the goal of topping up the numbers to the existing level, immigrants are being brought in with the intent of tripling the population. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Initiative whose founders are advisors to the federal government.

2) Canada does not need immigrants to pay for its pensions. CPP and other pension in Canada are well run, invest their money, and don't just route money from young people to old. Rather, they pay the money out from the money already put in.

[candiodari]

> and don't just route money from young people to old

Doesn't matter. Money represents goods and services. And the young people to provide care to the elderly at the currently expected levels don't exist. Things, even services, that don't exist can't be bought at any price.

People often forget that money is but a proxy for other things. On the small scale of an individual or a family anything can be bought. For a country, the illusion is broken and you have to do economics with actual people, actual land, ... because otherwise prices will rapidly "adapt" and make policy impossible.

Which is exactly the mistake 99% of all governments currently make.

[adventured]

> The problem is the policy driving it is bad. Rather than high-skilled workers, we're letting in low-to-mid-skilled young people.

The US has been running its immigration system this way for many decades. It's a disaster. With low to modest economic growth, lifting tens of millions of poor, low education, low skill, non-english speakers up out of poverty is almost impossible. You need persistently rapid economic expansion to do that. The US is getting a long-term under economic class of non-English speakers with low education levels: forever low income laborers. There are large special interests (business and political) in the US that like this and have kept our immigration system this way on purpose for decades despite the mess it has caused. Canada should avoid replicating this failed approach to immigration. The US also has a lot of sprawl space to live in, Canada for the most part does not (most of Canada isn't reasonably inhabitable obviously), so you just get ever more intense density problems in Canada with bulk immigration.

The other huge problem for Canada's immigration change, is that the low skill workers won't contribute enough in taxes net to make a difference in the fiscal demographic problems of the coming decades. The net tax contribution of a low skill worker is between zero and very low across their lifetime. Whereas with Canada's former policy of focusing on high skill immigration, you get a large tax surplus per person, which pays for expensive social programs.

[michaelmrose]

We aren't getting 10s of millions in the last 20 years the population of illegal immigrants has grown by about 2 million.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-k...

The majority speak English especially after living here for 5+ years.

There are more than enough jobs to go around which is why immigrants only have a problem supporting themselves when not allowed to work.

[darth_avocado]

Maybe I am misinformed, being in the US I always hear that Canadian points based immigration policy is way better than US and it encourages high skill immigration. Is that not true?

[maxglute]

It was fine, but more importantly borderline sustainable, until post covid explosion in Indian student visas, more than system can realistically integrate in short time line involved. The point of skill based immigration is you drain the brightest (and richest) who can generally pay their way and be net contributor right away (tuition etc). When I was in Canadian uni around the 00s, around explosion of PRC international students, they mostly come from wealthy backcgrounds, bought a condo, studied and transitioned into skilled work. They generally didn't work part time while in school. Brought money into economy with stupid consumption. Still drove up RE market / rent, but not the to levels now in the last few years. The richest Indians with $$$ goes to the states due to their remarkably successful Indian disaphora network, Canada gets what's left over, which is still bright/hardworking minds, but they're poorer, and many have to work driving down wages in all segments. Which might be fine i nmoderation but with sheer numbers involved, in the time frame involved, is driving up cost to visibly levels in the few cities where immigrants settle.

[KorematsuFredt]

To give context some cities in India hold a massive "send off" ceremonies for Indian students going to Canada and they rent a stadium to do so. The are not just sending by truckloads and boatloads but hudrends of flights full of indian students.

[gigglesupstairs]

Do you have any source for that stadium example? I’m hearing it for the first time and Google didn’t help.

[Scoundreller]

Chain migration is great imo.

Immigrants arrive with a built-in support system that get them off the ground when they arrive, a safety net and most importantly, someone that they can trust. All in ideal circumstances anyway.

Corporate migration puts immigrants at huge risk of abuse and failure if things don’t go as expected.

A lot of immigration happens somewhere in the middle.

Canada’s points system isn’t that robust, but I guess less problematic than a straight up lottery.

[red-iron-pine]

American in Canada.

One of the work permit paths is points-based -- "Express Entry". There are plenty of other ways, and there are programs like the Temporary Foreign Worker (contemptuously referred to as TFWs), who bring in lots of low skilled workers. Lots of Filipino coffee-slingers working at Tim Horton's (a fast food chain), for example.

Immigration also isn't the problem, the problem is the boomers buying up all of the housing, and large corporations (many of which are foreign) buying up the rest. This is combined with Canada's climate and geography -- aka most of the country is uninhabitable in any real sense -- which concentrates the population in a handful of markets where the prices are absurd.

[KorematsuFredt]

As someone deeply involved in immigration advocacy in USA I can assure you that the Canadian points based system is terrible. It is the classic case of grass is greener on other side effect.

[KorematsuFredt]

To elaborate a bit more:

The points based system is eventually administered by a bunch of government servant and the "points" are subject to the internal politics of the government.

Consider the french and english language proficiency. It is established based on some exam. Now in countries like India there is a vast network of institutes which will help you to beat those tests without having actual proficiency in the language. But what if you fail ? Pretty simple. You find a smart spouse who can crack it for you and then pay her a large money to help you move to Canada and then file for divorce after couple of years.

Same goes for things like job offers in Canada. It can very easily be hacked. You pay a Canadian business owner who happens to be the third cousin of your mother a nice sum to give you an offer. Then when you go to Canada you work for someone else.

The market is much better indicator of a person's worth to society than any points based system. In USA you cross the border and make a living for yourself and you are an American. We do not care what Trump, IRS or CBP have to say in this regard. It attracts hustlers and badass people.

[frfl]

Isn't green card marriage a thing in USA?

There's also visas for international investors - something like invest $1M USD into a business or create 10 jobs and get a visa, or something along those lines. Perhaps more expensive, but not much different fundamentally than paying someone for a job to get a visa.

Every system has it's flaws.

[Kranar]

Not sure how anything you've claimed is terrible. Yes to assess language proficiency people are tested both with a written and verbal exam. How is that terrible? What other means of assessing someone's language proficiency do you have in mind that is better than a written and verbal test?

Also your other points all involve breaking the law, which yes someone can absolutely commit a crime to gain an advantage assuming they don't get caught. I'm not sure how you expect any immigration system to operate other than by having rules and if those rules are broken having penalties for breaking them.

The main criticism I have about the U.S. system of immigration, and why I think Canada does it better is that in the U.S. in the majority of cases your immigration status is often tied to a specific job and if you lose that job you're done. I find that rather disgusting to be honest even if it attracts "hustlers" and "bad asses" as you claim.