[AbstractAirways]

> "From an H.R. standpoint, this is a nightmare... It completely reverses their image as a desirable employer."

Good. I mentor early career and nontraditional-background engineers, and among this set, Google has acquired a certain reputation. To paraphrase, if you can just pass the interview bar, you'll find yourself in an organization where the pay is amazing, the oversight is minimal, the visa/greencard policy is generous, and the HR processes rarely fire anyone. I routinely got to see people who I would never want to work with get hired there.

If Google becomes less of a target for barely-qualified people who want to rest and vest, I'm all for it.

[scarface_74]

And I would still recommend any early career person to “grind leetcode and work for a FAANG”. The money is too good to give up.

I would also tell them to live below their means and save like crazy while they were there and to immediately sell their stock once it is vested and diversify.

FWIW: I didn’t get into BigTech until 46. It served its purpose and I have no desire to go back to any large company. But again, I’m 50.

https://news.ycombinator.com/favorites?id=scarface_74&commen...

[reaperducer]

The money is too good to give up.

Not everyone is motivated by greed.

[scarface_74]

But surprisingly, as far as I know, no one has found a treatment for people’s addiction to food, clothes and shelter.

The reality is that there is a huge difference between what your average CRUD/enterprise developer makes - which describes the vast majority of the 2.7 million developers in the US - and what you can make working at BigTech.

Your average CRUD developer in most major cities in the US is going to top out at $160K - $170K. That’s about what I saw returning interns get as full time offers when I was working at Amazon. Amazon pays less than Google

[asadotzler]

Those can all be had, even decent quality, for far less than a Google salary.

[scarface_74]

Yes, and I did just that. I had my first house built in metro Atlanta making $70K in 2002, it was $170K and my second house built in the north metro area in the “good school system” - 3200 square feet - in 2016 for $335K. I was making $115K when I qualified for it.

I bought my 3rd place - a condo in a resort area in Florida 2 years ago and this is the life we live now - thanks to being able to sell our house that doubled in value in six years.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36306966

Good luck with doing any of that now.

But unless you’re working for a non profit, you’re working for a company whose only motivation is profit. Why wouldn’t you work for BigTech and exchange as much money for your labor as possible?

Especially when you’re young and you have the time value of money working for you?

Right now, I’m only making about $30K more than an entry level dev at BigTech makes and I’m 50. But I don’t have kids to put through college or ever have to think about kids or starting a family (we are empty nesters), my own student loans, trying to buy a home in today’s real estate market etc.

But I also wasn’t able to max out my 401K plan and HSA at 22 years old like a 22 year old that I mentored when they were an intern when they came back the next year.

[mgarfias]

I’m feeling the same

[anonylizard]

The fundamental insight of modern democracy, is not 1 man 1 vote, but that of balances and checks against power.

1 man 1 vote does not lead to the wisest or most long term of decision making, however, without it, the natural tendency is for the politician class and the wealthy to coalesce into one, with money reinforcing political power, and vice versa, sucking away any vitality in society.

In the US, as well as in many countries, its been shown again and again that money cannot simply buy the vote of every person. And there mass voting already demonstrates its power.

This principle extends to every facet of society. Company executives are checked by the board, the board checked by the shareholders, the shareholders checked by each other (the US allows shorting stocks for a reason).

I therefore find it questionable that a bunch of unchecked software engineers will lead to very good outcomes. No oversight, no pressure = freedom to pursue creativity and outcomes? Or merely idle hands? When people were proposing working multiple remote jobs during COVID, was that people being smart, or unethical behaviour being tolerated and justified?

Now the pendulum swinging too far back into the other direction would also be bad. See what happens to Boeing when engineers get completely subjugated by MBA management. But software people should not treat the exhortation to work a full 40 hour week as being whipped by slaves.

[gambiting]

>> I routinely got to see people who I would never want to work with get hired there.

Can you expland on this? It doesn't really mesh with the preview sentence for me.

>>If Google becomes less of a target for barely-qualified people who want to rest and vest

It's always been my impression that people who actually manage to get a job at Google are extremely competent(so by definition - qualified) - is that not true?

[scarface_74]

Or able to spend six months studying for coding interviews…

[onetimeuse92304]

If you mean to actually learn to code for a job that obviously requires coding skills...

While we are at it, also spend another year learning technology and design patterns to prep for a design interview.

Listen, nobody gets a job at Google because they studied for coding interview. Coding is a precondition of getting the job, but it is far from enough to secure it.

[scarface_74]

There is a huge difference between “learning how to code” and “learning how to pass coding interviews”. What you actually do at any job - BigTech or not - is completely different from what you learn “grinding leetCode”.

If there is more of a prerequisite than “learning how to pass coding interviews” to get into Google, how do juniors with no real world experience get in?

[0xedd]

Wrong and wrong.

That's exactly what my wife did. She solved coding challenges for a few weeks before interviewing at Google. Got an offer but turned it down because of the people she met.

Getting fired where we live (not US) is very hard.

[phreeza]

> If Google becomes less of a target for barely-qualified people who want to rest and vest, I'm all for it.

Why though, do you work there?

[AbstractAirways]

Not anymore. I left years ago.

As an anecdote, right before I left I did my standard self-assessment for performance season. I to my horror I realized that I had accomplished nothing for an entire year. This was largely (I believe...) due to factors outside my control: I did lots of work, but nothing came of it due to delays, procedural slowdown, project cancellations, etc. Instead of reprimanding me for this lack of output, my manager put me up for promotion. I left shortly after this.

[rightbyte]

What is your point with the example? If it was outside of your control, surely the manager did the right thing by ignoring that there was nothing accomplished in the end?

[phreeza]

Right, I'm sure that happens, but what I wonder is why you hope for fewer coasters to apply at Google (and by corollary apply at other companies)?

[superhuzza]

Where did they say that they work at Google?

[fullshark]

Why else would they want Google to have fewer engineers they consider fraudulent?