[brabel]

Before the modern age, most humans worked in agriculture. Really, really hard work, day in day out, no vacations, no sick days, you had to be there no matter the weather (except extreme events where your live would be endangered too much, probably). It's amazing how today we can actually even think that "work should be a meaningful part of life" rather than just a means to keep you alive. Today, I would say most people still do either menial jobs or "pointless" jobs that they have very little emotional attachment to. They do it because they must do something to survive. But there's also the higher ups who don't really love at all what they're doing, but feel like they need to keep "going up", from engineer to "lead" to C-level to CEO to founder etc. I don't think anyone really loves doing those things (except extremely narcissists who feel pleasure being in charge), they do it because they know that they have the potential to do it and they feel social pressure to climb the ladder. If we lived in a completely equal society where CEOs were not seen as "higher" than individual contributors, and consequently didn't receive ridiculously larger paychecks, who in their right mind would choose to do that? Even though I do enjoy my job, I am pretty sure that's in large part because I managed, like most other well functioning adults, to rationalize my situation so that I don't feel like working day in day out on my desk it not a stupidly pointless way to spend life - and pretend like I wouldn't much rather be surfing in the Pacific islands, working as a bartender at night, sharing stories by a fire on the beach until sunrise, living the simple life without responsibilities.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

> Before the modern age, most humans worked in agriculture. Really, really hard work, day in day out, no vacations, no sick days, you had to be there no matter the weather (except extreme events where your live would be endangered too much, probably).

Btw this is simply not true. People worked less in agriculture than a 9-5. You’d only really be working hard at specific times of the year- harvesting, seeding, etc. You’d be doing other things like working on the house, feeding various animals, churning butter or making clothes, etc, in the in-between.

[brabel]

Well I am not sure you're even disagreeing with what I actually said: I didn't say they did the same thing every day. Just that they had to work hard day in day out. And I am pretty sure that's the case, even if what they did a lot of the time is what you call the "in-betweens". Remember that most people would've lived under a local chief which surely would find lots and lots of things for them to do, like build monuments, train for war (which is a constant in every human society ever - ours may be the most peaceful society in all of human history actually), even compete in sports which could be a matter of life and death in those times. Women had to be really hard workers in those times as I'm sure taking care of kids/cooking/cleaning before electricity was discovered would've required much more time than they actually had.

[j4yav]

If we expand working in agriculture to mean everything humans do in addition to working in agriculture, then sure you might be on to something, but then we are sort of drifting away from the topic of what people do for work and whether it is rewarding. I think people are mainly disagreeing with the specific agricultural work part.

[coolThingsFirst]

As soon as i read this a beautiful and peaceful life flashed before my eyes.

[raducu]

> As soon as i read this a beautiful and peaceful life flashed before my eyes.

I lived such a life on my grandparents subsistence farm in early post-communist Romania, where we only bought store made bread and nothing else for months (and even that was optional, but store made bread tasted better than homemade).

I would LOVE to go back in time to that house on a summer night, 0 light pollution, starry night, just the crickets and occasional sound of the hooves of the cows or horse against the stone pavement in their yard when they went for a drink, or the dog being happy you visit him outside when you take a piss.

Or the late evening dinner on the high porch, people across the stone-wall fence returning from the fields in their horse pulled carriages overburdened with hay. Or the strong sense of community of the people gathered at their out of the gate benches smaltalking in the evening.

Or the rain-invocation rituals that involved splashing the village virgins dressed only in leaves in their late evening procession. Or the taste of milk straight after being milked out of the cow (I don't know how I never got sick), or the taste of fresh butter, or cheese or whey cheese.

Or fetching sheep milk from the herd manager over the bouncy wire bridge, starry night, accompanied by swarms of fireflies, wind whispering through the alder leaves.

Or the cows opening the iron gate with a thud in the evening when they return with the communal herd.

Or riding the horse without a saddle because my shoeless feet hurt from walking over freshly scythed grasslands.

Or returning with my grandpa late in the night from a long trip up the mountain to his lonely uncle's house. We brought him meaty treats and he showed us the squirrels in his roof attic.

Or to hear my grandparents extraordinary survival stories or stories about supranatural occurences.

[j4yav]

That’s actually sort of a myth. If you work on a farm, there are a few very intense parts of the year, but most days are otherwise prep work and maintenance and you can actually wrap up fairly early and manage your own schedule. What sucks about farming is thin margins and how a bad crop can wipe you out.

Possibly different on a factory farm that maximises production every day but that’s not really what you’re referring to.

This comes from personal experience working on productive small farms.

[brabel]

A modern farm has almost nothing in common with the farms of pre-modern history. It would've been much closer to indigenous tribes for much of history.

[j4yav]

What does it mean for a farm to be closer to indigenous tribes?

[richrichie]

Not quite day in and day out. Agricultural work pre modern times was seasonal.

[badpun]

There was stuff to do outside the growing season still. There were farm animals to tend to, you fixed up your house and the farm buildings, made and mended clothes etc. Although, since the days were shorter, the work time was naturally shorter as well, as artificial light was expensive.

[hnfong]

I guess you could always get into a situation where you manage a farm that exhausts all your available time.

But work is indeed seasonal, and I doubt you'd actually be able to be so effective that you don't have any free time at all. (And if you manage that, presumably you'll be a rather rich farmer...)

Also, in many places, there's nothing much to do in the winter except stay inside the house around a warm fire and try not to freeze. Yes you could take on some other work using the light from the fireplace as well... but did everyone actually exert themselves so much that they didn't have a single day of rest? I really doubt it and it's more likely it's a tale told by capitalists to scare us into being grateful for being employed.

PS: much of Europe also observed the Sabbath too, so there's also at least one day off per week.

[huytersd]

This is bullshit. I directly know families in Asia that farm a moderate sized one acre plot without heavy machinery. It is long days of work during planting and harvest but that’s less than 2 months of the year. The rest of the year is maintenance and other support work and starting at 6 in the morning they’re usually done by 1-2p.

[brabel]

It's not bullshit. I am not talking about modern farm life, I am talking about the time before civilization rose (which is nearly all of human history before 10,000BC to around 400,000 years earlier when people would've been recognized as a modern human).

Do those families have access to modern conveniences at all? Like any goods shipped across the world by modern shipping, just as one of thousands of examples? They do, I am sure. Imagine you lived before that, where the only stuff you would have easy access to were goods produced within a few hundred Km (but mostly you needed to produce everything yourself within your "tribes").

Most of human history had no cities, very few roads, very little commerce outside local villages. I am sure they did have a lot of free time as others mentioned... but work was just not something you did for enjoyment and I think it never really is.