[neltnerb]

> very similar arc to "plastic bags are bad, save the trees!" -> "plastic is bad, paper is renewable!"

Over four decades, environmentalists have simply won the discussion. 99% of paper products made in the US are made using farmed wood. Now paper is renewable enough that I don't worry about putting it in the trash (since I know we have an incinerator).

Still uses petrochemicals for harvesting and processing, there's definitely a risk that certain kinds of tree farms are counterproductive. I don't think that's ever really broadly been the case though, it sounds like a whitepaper released by a thinktank funded by a plastic company to me. Those often get repackaged into low effort local news, it's not surprising that people get so confused.

[h0l0cube]

But also environmentalists aren't the ones pushing for paper straws, it's mostly greenwashing by large corps and governments. Though from a conservation perspective, less plastic waste is probably a good thing for waterways and the life that depends on them (including us).

[neltnerb]

I suppose they are, in the sense that I would wave a magic wand that replaced plastic in all applications where it was not being used as a critical material with a more expensive but more sustainable alternative.

Straws I guess get wrapped up in that, though I'd sooner just not use a straw and don't see why that's not the default. Seems strange to me that adult humans want a goofy plastic tube in order to make drinking liquid enjoyable enough.

To me the bigger issues are single use plastic cups and bottles, to which I say elimination and alternatives like water bottles and aluminum cans, paper cups, aluminum cups (did you know you can buy aluminum solo cups?), and glassware can really meet almost every need. It's a matter of volume and pollution versus real net utility versus the technology they replace.

There's some advanced plastics and things for packaging that are cool, but they don't need to be on every single thing.

[ffgjgf1]

There is no reason why those plastics have to end up in waterways though

[h0l0cube]

There’s a whole bunch of terrible outcomes that aren’t necessary