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by redsoundbanner 871 days ago
Price caps are pathetic stand-ins for profit caps.
6 comments

Profit caps disincentivize companies to be efficient, meaning they'll just waste resources that could be used better elsewhere in the economy. Capping price or profit does nothing to address the root cause of the problem - lack of competition. Lack of competition could be addressed by finding ways to reduce regulatory hurdles to enter the market, or by breaking up monopolies with anti-trust action.
>Profit caps disincentivize companies to be efficient

Considering I was just laid off for the sake of "efficiency" that is perfectly fine by me.

You got laid off because they dont need you. I understand how traumatic and life destroying it can be sometimes, but long term it destroys the future of overall population, to prevent firing people who are no longer necessary.

We’d all be stuck as farmers, tailors and wood cutters, if firing people was penalised or efficiency was punished, no one would want to make their company more efficient with wood cutting machines or sewing machines, or tractors for farming, etc.

In a small timeframe it is horrible to lose a job, but the state is responsible for protecting both the future generations balanced with comfort and safety of present population.

A affordable unemployment insurance is a much better idea tbh compared to profit caps or price caps.

Good luck tho!, may you get a great job soon. May god bless you.

Screw all the people who weren’t misfortunate in your exact way, I guess?
We don’t care what is fine by you
I'll care if you don't.
The government should not be prohibited (in some places they are! Muni broadband as an example) from offering competing services.

Proper competition would limit market malfunction.

The prohibition should stand. People should have a voluntary option to pay or not pay for services as they choose. Except I suppose in quite exceptional circumstances.

If a group of locals want to pool their cash and start up a local broadband service then good on them, best of luck. But taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook to help them.

USPS is an example. It's sort of a public utility that has some strange requirements, like it _must_ __offer__ service to everyone. In some places this is less profitable, and private postal / shipping firms might not even offer their own service (or pay USPS for the last leg instead).

However, because USPS exists, there is a ceiling to how much other firms can charge without differentiating their services to make it worth the difference in cost. It helps ensure the market functions with proper competition.

For any other market where distortion (dysfunctional market) is observed, the solution is not to mandate the impossible from the existing players, but to modify the market conditions where they are broken.

competing with USPS mail delivery is illegal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes
> But taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook to help them.

Aren't said locals literally tax payers? And they want their tax money to go to something actually useful for them.

Say we have a Centiville, a conveniently sized community of 100 people. 90 of them want municipal broadband because they like the internet.

That 90% should be allowed to pool their resources, start a "Centiville Fibre" company, build out fibre locally and charge locals a fair rate. Then the remaining 10 don't have to be involved in something they don't want. Or they can pay market rate for it without getting a dividend, which is effectively a penalty.

No government involvement required outside maybe permitting. The people who want it pay, it probably happens faster and all is good.

> And they want their tax money to go to something actually useful for them.

They're going to have their taxes raised to pay for the installation costs. Doing it through the government doesn't mean there is more money (unless they're harvesting resources off people who think it is a bad idea / don't want it / can't afford it which is unfair).

I don’t have children but I still pay for the schools. The idea that your tax dollars should only get spent on something you use personally is laughable.
Well, yes. But that is a straw man because nobody argued that.

Taxpayers shouldn't be forced to pay for things that they don't use and don't think are good ideas. If you use it, you should pay for it. If you think it is a good idea, you should pay for it. But if people think something is a bad idea they should only have to pay for it under highly exceptional circumstances.

There is no need to force people to pay for broadband. This is a problem that a company can solve using voluntary action.

What straw man is constructed here? There are people who don’t think they should pay for schools with their taxes. There are people who literally are advocating to instead be paid to not use public schools at all.

Many people strongly disagree about the places their tax dollars go. It is maybe one of the single most common complaints people utter and this is an example of it? People are able to make decisions about where their tax dollars go but only in the abstract of collective action via legislation. It’s kind of how governments work on a fundamental level and most of politics is about where the tax dollars go.

If a strong majority of people choose to do something as a municipality, that is the system at work. Sorry to the 10% of people who think they’re getting a bad deal (and are also almost certainly wrong on an objective level unless they just don’t want internet at all).

The suggestion that instead a private enterprise should be spun up for it so they can choose to not subscribe is the antithesis of the entire point. The entire point is that the cost is already beared by the taxpayers in the first place and that it should serve them. It makes more sense to invest directly in the creation and keep it in the hands of those who bore the cost. We give billions out in corporate welfare and yet the companies who get that money are quite often the most reviled in the nation based on public polling (Telcos). It is almost like the incentives aren’t aligned.

Example: Germany’s mostly-public (Gesetzliche - more like, extremely strictly regulated) health insurance system putting a market-based cap on what private (more like, more lightly-regulated) insurance can cost and cover.

I was on the private system my first 13 years working in Germany. I was obligated (but didn’t try to fight) switch to public recently.

The change has overall been positive.

I'm all for government 'competition' so long as they play by the rules of the market. If government 'competition' means a money-losing (i.e. tax-supported) enterprise, then it's not competition, it's just price-setting with extra steps.
cost-plus has largely proved to be a busted business model. in industries where it is de rigueur, such as defense and space, traditional business models have driven efficiency improvements and new product development alongside price decreases.
Profit caps incentivize bigger costs and bigger payouts
i do not care for them, but profit cap is not the same as margin cap
Profit cap is not a real thing as far as I know

But if it were, it would encourage serving the smallest possible cohort and doing no more business

Notably, the Affordable Care Act limited administration costs to 20%.
I’ve always suspected that that incentivized health insurance companies to let hospitals inflate costs. If the government forbids me from increasing my percentage of the pie and I need to increase revenue I have to increase the size of the pie.
Yes, this and vertical integration. The insurance company may have limited profit, but if the hospital doesn't, and they're both owned by the same parent company, then the prices "inside the control volume" can be whatever fiction is most convenient to report to the government.
How many insurance companies are under the same parent org as hospitals?
Looked up the largest health insurer, they operate hospitals:

> Kaiser Permanente operates 39 hospitals and more than 700 medical offices, with over 300,000 personnel, including more than 87,000 physicians and nurses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaiser_Permanente

The second largest also owns Optum with 60k doctors:

> Optum Care is a family of 60,000 doctors in 2,000 locations nationwide. We work together to help 20+ million people live healthier lives.

https://www.optum.com/en/about-us/optum-care.html

So I'd ask you back, how many insurance companies aren't under the same parent org as hospitals? The 2 largest are, wouldn't surprise me if most are.

I’m not sure. I don’t know much about healthcare in the United States.
Wouldn't that just be taxes?