[hpenvy]

I still don't understand the belief that Epstein must not have killed himself. I can understand feeling like he might have been killed but I don't know what gives people the conviction that he must have been.

I feel similarly about this case. Is it really that bizarre to think that a person who decides to work for the CIA and then decides to leak information would also have CSAM?

[tossit444]

I believe specifically for Epstein's case it was a combination of two things: 1) The "malfunction" of the security cameras outside of his cell, and 2) his seemingly boundless connection to very wealthy and famous people.

1) page 4 of https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/23-085.p...

2) https://epsteinsblackbook.com/all-names

[mc32]

Obviously a biased source, but his brother does not thing it was suicide either. That's to say he's right. People do commit suicide in jail or prison, but it does seem weird that a high value prisoner was not properly monitored for suicide-watch. Technically he was, but the Cameras were not working and the guys watching him were very lackadaisical about it.

[DanBC]

> and the guys watching him were very lackadaisical about it.

Anyone who knows anything at all about suicide prevention is unsurprised by this. We know that observation does not work because staff cannot maintain it. This is true whether it's 15 minute obs, 5 minute obs, permanent line of sight obs, arms length obs, two to one arms length obs: they do not work.

There are countless examples of staff in hospital, on duty, doing obs, knowing their patient is at increased risk of suicide, falling asleep.

[voltaireodactyl]

The different between those countless examples and Epstein’e case is that the latter involves perhaps the single most internationally famous and famously at-risk prisoner in human history — so while taking the standard statistics into account is good practice, it’s a bit like using the historical weather patterns to argue against the existence of a currently-happening hurricane.

[linehedonist]

What a claim. In all of human history? What about Cleopatra or Napoleon?

[voltaireodactyl]

The word “perhaps” allows for alternate opinions :). But I must say, both Cleopatra and Napoleon existing in a pre social media world suggests their infamy did not spread as far, and neither Napoleon nor Cleopatra had the ability to expose leaders around the world from within their jail cells — thus the “at-risk”.

But I’m curious to hear who you would suggest instead. One of those two? Someone else?

[WhyOhWhyQ]

I think that primary causes of assuredness in such conspiratorial matters is 1) political (Epstein didn't kill himself and the people currently in power must be to blame!) and 2) the desire many people have for the world to be more exciting and interesting than it is (this is the ultimate cause of many kinds of magical thinking).

[chfalck]

Per GPT4:

“”” The death of Jeffrey Epstein, a financier arrested on charges of sex trafficking minors, occurred on August 10, 2019, in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC) in New York City. Epstein's death was ruled a suicide by hanging by the New York City Medical Examiner's office. However, the circumstances surrounding his death have led to widespread speculation and theories suggesting foul play or negligence. Here are the most pertinent facts, including those that have fueled skepticism about the official suicide ruling:

1. *High-profile Connections*: Epstein had connections to powerful figures internationally, including politicians, celebrities, and royalty. This raised questions about potential motives for wanting him silenced.

2. *Previous Suicide Attempt or Assault*: Epstein had been placed on suicide watch after being found injured in his cell in July 2019, weeks before his death. However, he was taken off suicide watch at the end of July, under circumstances that have been questioned.

3. *Violations of Jail Protocol*: On the night of his death, several standard jail protocols were reportedly violated. For example: - Epstein's cellmate had been transferred, leaving him alone. - Guards failed to check on him every 30 minutes, as required. - Two guards who were supposed to monitor him fell asleep and later falsified records to cover up their negligence.

4. *Malfunctioning Surveillance Cameras*: It was reported that surveillance cameras in the area of Epstein's cell were not functioning properly at the time of his death, leading to a lack of video evidence.

5. *Autopsy Controversies*: The autopsy findings were a focal point of contention. Notably, a forensic pathologist hired by Epstein's brother to observe the autopsy challenged the official suicide ruling, citing injuries that were more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicide.

6. *Expert Opinions*: Some medical experts have pointed to the broken hyoid bone in Epstein's neck as more typical in cases of strangulation than hanging, though it can occur in both.

7. *Inadequate Staffing and Facility Issues*: Reports highlighted that the MCC was suffering from staffing shortages and other logistical challenges, contributing to a failure in maintaining appropriate surveillance and safety measures.

8. *Legal and Financial Matters*: At the time of his death, Epstein was awaiting trial, and significant attention was on his vast wealth and the potential revelation of more individuals involved in his crimes. His death prevented any possibility of him testifying or cooperating with authorities.

These facts have led to a multitude of theories and calls for further investigation, with critics arguing that the negligence and irregularities point to a possible cover-up or failure to prevent Epstein's death, whether it was suicide or foul play. The U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI launched investigations into the circumstances of Epstein's death, reflecting the high level of public and official concern surrounding the case. “””