[jasfi]

Then you'd never use an ORM, because you might require something an ORM can't handle at some point. I don't see why a coder couldn't handle a mix of both. The other factor is that ORMs tend to add features over time. Something that would require raw SQL today might be more elegantly handled with an ORM's language two years from now.

[blagie]

You missed the point entirely.

Language like "require raw SQL today might be more elegantly handled with an ORM's language" suggests that you do not understand the elegance of SQL or the relational data model.

However, you are correct. I used ORMs less and less often as I became a better SWE. They can save time on toy projects, but for those, I usually use a NoSQL or KVS directly.

[jasfi]

I understand SQL and the relational model very well. But once I start using an ORM I want to keep using it for consistency, unless it's not the right tool for the job. Complex queries are usually the reason. Even if the ORM can technically do it, sometimes SQL is just more elegant, faster to write and I can be sure of doing it right.