[rcbdev]

I feel like the discourse on worker rights / work-life balance and demographic issues are more decoupled than they should be. Low birth-rates are provably related to the ability of parents to spend time with their children.

This combined with other initiatives might help Europe recover from the serious imminent demographic collapse.

[ernst_klim]

> Low birth-rates are provably related to the ability of parents to spend time with their children.

I'm constantly seeing this idea, and if anything, it's the opposite of truth. Poverty is always breeding much better than the middle class, and the fertility rates always fall when standards of living rise.

> ability of parents to spend time with their childre

Children are an opportunity cost. When parents have a free time, it's a choice between self-realization and spending time with a kid. Spending on yourselves or spending on a kid etc. When you are dirt poor or rich there is no such choice, you'll either have no resources to spend anyway or have enough resources to not bother.

I live in Berlin and surrounded by middle class people and nearly non have children. Give them one more day and they will go to Kitkat/hiking one more day a week. That's it.

[rcbdev]

> [...] it's the opposite of truth. Poverty is always breeding much better than the middle class

I'm constantly seeing this idea, and if anything, it misses the forest for the trees. Fertility rates fall when standards of living rise - up to a specific point. After that point, fertility rises to sustainable levels again. The research is quite clear on this.

> [...] it's a choice between self-realization and spending time with a kid

And this is exactly my theory on why the "slope" of childlessness occurs.

Rising towards the middle class means that all lesser needs are fulfilled and now only self-actualization remains unmet. The cruel joke is that people then forsake having children in favor of self-realization while someone a with more resources would not feel the need to make this compromise.

So in a sense, the most deprived people don't care and still have children despite the challenges (lower class), the less deprived people forsake children in order to meet their highest-order needs (middle class) and the mostly undeprived do not have to make any trade-offs like that and again have children. (upper class)

I live in Vienna, an arguably more family friendly city, and most middle class people around me (aged ~30-40) do have babies at home - esp. those working in relaxed environments like public sector. If you give people the resources, flexibility and time to have children without worrying, they will indeed have more children (in the long run).

[mensetmanusman]

The couples I know who don't have kids don't want kids to get in the way of their travel.

[llampx]

Most of the expenses around kids revolve around the space they need. Bigger apartment, bigger car, more food are the bare necessities. Then come the expenses for additional flight tickets for vacations, bigger or more hotel rooms, needing to go on vacation during high season or not at all, extra-curricular activities, and so on. One kid can easily double your expenses from a couple's level.