[roenxi]

Bitcoin has been around for 15 years at this point and there is absolutely no confusion about the technical underpinnings. It has handily survived attempts at government shutdowns in China and serious interest rate hikes. Numerous scams have come, gone and had no impact on hodlers.

At this point it is no longer reasonable to just claim it is a greater fools game without an argument for why. The evidence right now seems to put it in a similar category to gold in that people generally don't like that it has value, but nonetheless value is present.

I also draw people's attention to the parallel with something like a RAID array - it is possible to make robust systems out of unreliable parts. The abundance of scammy and scummy operators in the crypto space is quite consistent with the similar prevalence in traditional finance. The system is robust regardless.

[pinkmuffinere]

I feel the comparison to gold is a bit of a reach. Gold is valuable because:

1. People see it as a store of value

2. It has some useful physical properties

3. People use it as a decoration

Possibly there are other reasons as well, but those are the ones that come immediately to mind. As far as I can tell, Bitcoin only shares attribute #1. It doesn’t have intrinsic properties that make it useful into larger systems (though perhaps we just haven’t found the right systems yet?), and people don’t feel it’s intrinsically valuable. Not to completely bash Bitcoin though — if enough people find it valuable it can become a useful way to exchange value. Right now it’s just pretty bad at that.

[roenxi]

Crypto overall, including Bitcoin, have bunch of intrinsic properties. A lot of people just don't want to recognise them. It puts me in mind of the Sovereign citizen movement, and I expect it'll work just as well for them vs crypto as it did for the SovCits vs the US government.

* Can only pull new bitcoin into existence by paying a hefty market-determined price.

* Can transfer them iff you know a certain secret.

* Can verify that a certain number of bitcoin are linked to a specific secret.

* Can technically transfer bitcoin without approval from a legally blessed 3rd party

There is no asset outside of crypto with those properties. Turns out that combination is worth, so far, billions. Probably more as it settles in and people get used to the idea. Will Bitcoin last forever like gold? No. Will it last long enough? Looks like it. Is crypto valuable? Judgement is in, market says yes.

[bemusedthrow75]

I also think Bitcoin and crypto generally have a lot in common with the sovereign citizen movement. But I think where you and I differ is that I think that’s a uniformly bad thing.

[therobots927]

It's much easier to transfer bitcoin than it is to transfer gold, so not only does it share #1, it has additional attributes than what you listed.

It already is a useful way to exchange value, people do it all the time.

[koonsolo]

You can literally store it in your mind. A lot of people buy gold for when "Shit hits the fan". But in the end, it's better to flee a horrible place (think Russia or Hong Kong) with a bottle of water and $1M worth of bitcoin stored in your head.

[Our_Benefactors]

> You can literally store it in your mind

People love to say this, but frankly it is so unrealistic as to border on untrue. It’s a lot to remember. And you can’t transact with “your head” alone, you still need to interface with a computer of sorts; in the event you’re fleeing it’s probably not so easy to purchase a hardware wallet or download the TB-scale blockchain.

[koonsolo]

> but frankly it is so unrealistic as to border on untrue. It’s a lot to remember.

12 words is enough. For example: witch collapse practice feed shame open despair creek road again ice least. If you can make a story that incorporates those words, it's even easier to remember.

> you still need to interface with a computer of sorts

You flee a nasty place towards a nice place. Nice places have computers and internet.

[bemusedthrow75]

Is this really the case?

Don't most people who invest in gold use ETCs/ETFs, certificates etc.?

I don't think gold trading is significantly far off instantaneous, at this point, and it's probably easier to cash out.

[badpun]

This just means it's technically sound gizmo. It's central purpose is still speculation though, which is rooted in the greater fool theory.

[nicbou]

But as a currency it’s still mostly useless.

[smackeyacky]

Every single one of these shit coins had a bunch of founders that mined all the profit out of it on day one. Everybody else is a sucker, bitcoin included.

The underlying model is corrupt and nakedly stupid.