[2cynykyl]

Having just spent many months in Japan, I can confirm this...the paper work was so involved it could have been satire. To change our address on our residence cards we need to do 'move out' paperwork in the old ward and bring that to the new one. Each visit takes the better part of a day. Dozens and dozens of people are working intensely behind the counter to service just a few customers.

Eventually I came to this explanation: their culture is obsessed with perfection, from perfectly paved roads to perfectly preserved temples to perfectly presented food, etc...but this pursuit of perfection in the hands of bureaucrats leads to processes where everything is captured in detail, approved by multiple people, etc. Basically, in the eyes of a bureaucrat, 'perfection' is a rock-solid paper-trail rather than a frictionless experience for the citizens.

[pembrook]

I have a similar working theory.

This is a problem in many formal, detail-and-rule-obsessed cultures. Germany, like Japan, is lauded for its industrial engineering/manufacturing — but has the exact same hilarious obsession with government paperwork.

Meanwhile, more creative and permissive cultures — like say, Sweden (outsized influence on global fashion/culture/tech given its size), have far less paperwork.

[thanatos519]

Canada isn't so detail-and-rule-obsessed, but their civil service is friendly and inefficient. I much prefer the kind and well-executed Dutch bureaucracy, even as an expat here. Filing my taxes, even in a year in which I bought a house, took less than an hour. Canadian taxes were comparatively byzantine!

[numpad0]

That explanation is spot on. Japanese culture is indeed obsessed on perfection to the point it almost touches my Japanese nerve that "forms" outside Japan are just Word documents with brackets and underscores, that's just too casual! That's not what a form is(well, it is...)

> ... than a frictionless experience for the citizens.

And this is spot on as well. Most Japanese barely understand the need for that; seeking better experience is, basically, seen as a sign of weakness. Way more attention and cost are spared for preventing what are seen as improper and illegitimate, than seeking paths of least resistances or goals at all. Everyone's process people always.

[skizm]

It sounds like they're all (government officials) just trying to keep their obsolete jobs alive by clinging to old methods of doing things under the guise of it being more reliable. Dozens of people don't need to service a few customers for perfection. The opposite. That's too many cooks in the kitchen. They need fewer people and fewer processes. The more convoluted the process, the higher likelihood of screw ups.

[duxup]

Is it the case in japan that they're "trying to keep their obsolete jobs alive"?

I find some people just love process and bureaucracy for its own sake and will ad it endlessly because they think it is their job, but not out of some effort to keep jobs going. There are countries where government spending is a political issue and a way to satisfy constitutions and keep things afloat, but Japan doesn't strike me as one of those.

[joenot443]

That's a really well presented synopsis, it matches well to the anecdotes I've heard over the years.

How do you think this impacts the private sector? When delivering to a client, are similarly laborious levels of perfection expected?