[Brian_K_White]

The declaration didn't reserve the address? What else is the point of having a declaration?

I don't think accepting the random initial value means that the value may continue to change until the first time you set a value.

[nanolith]

A declaration doesn't reserve an address. It just means that "x is a variable of type M." How this actually works depends on the compiler.

Weird things happen to uninitialized variables during optimization. Basically, nothing can be assumed about the value, because using an uninitialized variable results in undefined behavior. The original un-optimized generated code may very well have some default value, maybe. Probably not. But, the optimizer can decide that this value is represented by register R0 here and R4 there, and since the variable is uninitialized, there's no point in doing a spill or a load. It really comes down to how the optimization passes were written.

[Brian_K_White]

I'll take your word for it, but I would say there is a point, which is that the symbol was declared.

And I'm not talking about a default value, this doesn't imply a default value even though assigning an address will come with some value. But I do get that defining the name and type are a seperate thing that don't necessarily require assigning an address any more than assigning an a value.

The difference is, any default value would be arbitrary. 0 is just a value that has a meaning that the compiler can't know. It's almost as arbitrary as 37.

But picking the next available address to attach to the symbol is not like that.

The compiler always picks that itself and the programmer always has to ask what it is when they want to know it. The compiler can safely do that much right at declare time without making any assumptions. The value is still random, which is fine because 0 is almost the same as random, in that it's random if 0 would actually be the best default value for this particular item vs 1, -1, size, -size, size/2, etc.

[nanolith]

> But picking the next available address to attach to the symbol is not like that.

> The compiler always picks that itself

One of the best analogies I heard, years ago on IRC, is that good source code is like select cuts of meat and fat, and the compiler is like a meat grinder. What comes out of the meat grinder is hamburger. It bears little resemblance to the source code, syntax, or semantics. But, it is meat.

I'll talk about register machines with a stack, since code is generated on most architecture this way. But, that's not necessarily a thing that can be relied upon. The compiler will preserve "relevant meaning" once the optimization passes are finished. Side-effects and return values (if used by the caller in the case of LTO) may be preserved, but that's largely it. That being said, let's talk about what a variable is, from the perspective of a compiler. A variable is decomposed into a value, which may be referenced, may be changed, or may need to be preserved. The optimizer aggressively strips away anything that isn't immediately needed. If the compiler needs to preserve the value of the register, then it can choose several ways of doing this. If the value is fixed, then it may just become a constant in code. Fixed values can also be produced synthetically. If the value is variable that is set at runtime and referenced later, then it could be set in one register and transferred to another register. If neither is possible, then the value could be spilled to the stack. But, this spill location is not necessarily assigned to this variable. This spill location could be used for another variable later in the function when this one falls out of scope. Spill locations aren't necessarily fixed. On many ABIs, there are scratch registers, registers that must be preserved between calls (the called function must preserve them if used), and registers that can be overwritten after a call. How a value is preserved depends entirely on whether it must be preserved, and which is the most efficient way to do so.

If a variable in source code is referenced but never assigned, then the optimizer can optimize away any "storage" (i.e. stack or a register) for this variable. When the variable is "read", the value used is arbitrary, if at all. The "read" has no meaning and has been optimized away. The value isn't fixed to a random value either at compile time or at runtime. It's whatever flotsam happens to be at that particular place in code at that particular time. If the value is "read" once in one location and once again in another location, even on the next line of source code, these values could be the same or entirely different. There's no telling what the compiler will do, because the optimizer is really free to interpret this in any way. The only way to ensure that a value is preserved by the optimizer is to explicitly assign this variable a value in the source code. This assignment is respected, assuming that the variable is referenced afterward. Beyond that, we can't make any meaningful assumptions.

[Brian_K_White]

thank you