[AnotherGoodName]

A group I've encountered that this could help are those without tenacity. I have smart friends who are hugely into tech who somehow remained unemployable even during the boom times in that industry.

I try and try to push them towards opportunities but they argue 'I just have no natural talent for that' and stop before they even get started.

Eg. they tried programming for 3 days, still hadn't fully groked it (because no one does in that amount of time!) and gave up with the above line. Somewhat frustrating to deal with as a friend and also clear cut in what's holding them back as an outside observer: they simply aren't aggressively fighting internal and external demons that tell them they aren't good enough for something. The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination and it's a positive emotion to feel in that scenario but they seem to just roll over.

[lulesp]

Can be a case of child prodigies. When you get told early in your development that you are smart, smarter than the others, some tend to not put any effort because... well, they are smart so the answer will come naturally to them right ?

When any obstacle arise to this magical solution, you just fold and flee any difficult task. Trying and failing would make them realize that you weren't so special to start with.

[tasuki]

> some tend to not put any effort because... well, they are smart so the answer will come naturally to them right ?

Also, it's easier to preserve that self image by not putting in effort and failing. By putting in effort and facing an uncertain outcome, one could jeopardise their self image.

[iSnow]

>The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination and it's a positive emotion to feel in that scenario but they seem to just roll over.

Literally everyone with a somewhat weak self-esteem will shy away. Those friends of yours should maybe start programming as a hobby, for a small, defined project that scratches one of their itches, and then go from there.

I am structured like that and that's how I got into a well-paying job in software development.

[kreeben]

I like AnotherGoodName's advise, a lot. But as you say, it will hit a nerve only with people who already have some confidence in their abilities so if they hit a wall, instead of giving up, they say to themselves that "oh, I guess I just need to learn even more things" and then do. A person with low confidence in their abilities will probably say "oh, I'm not smart enough".

When it comes to this and most other trades, I'm with Gordon Ramsey. Anyone can become a good programmer. "Smartness" and "intelligence", they are such ill-defined concepts. I'm not sure I believe they are real things.

[saberience]

Can you explain the reference to Gordon Ramsey? (and a link would be great if possible)

[kreeben]

I thought he once said "anyone can become a chef" but after Googling I realize I might have a false memory. Was it another famous chef who said it? Sry.

[peterfirefly]

> 'I just have no natural talent for that'

I thought all my life that I had no talent for video games. I recently installed Doom II (bought for around 2€ on the Microsoft Store) and two weeks later gzDoom.

I did play around a bit with Doom 30 years ago and thought the graphics was nice but I wasn't good at it, was never going to be good at it, and it also wasn't all that interesting.

About a month after the install I'm a fairly decent Doom player. I can complete all the three original Doom episodes (and the first one on Ultraviolence).

Turns out I just never practiced enough -- and I didn't even need much of it!

[SwiftyBug]

> The mere suggestion that you can't possibly do something should fill you with burning determination

I have not once felt that. I guess people just approach challenges differently.