[jasode]

>I think this is wrong as well.

The gp's wording is a little confusing but he's just trying to explain the transitive logic of non-public information transferring from a "true insider" to an outsider is also "insider trading" and thus illegal. Think of it as the provenance of information coming from an insider.

E.g. Martha Stewart is an "outsider" and not an insider of drug company ImClone but she was found guilty of insider trading because she did get confidential information from insiders at the Merrill Lynch brokerage that handled stock trades for the ImClone CEO: https://www.sec.gov/news/press/2003-69.htm

Your scenario of a mechanic repairing cars, or somebody counting the number of cars in various Walmart parking lots, or a hacker that discovers a serious website vulnerability that may cause embarrassment and stock price drop ... none of those situations have a corporate insider in that information disclosure loop.

[injb]

>> Martha Stewart is an "outsider" and not an insider of drug company ImClone but she was found guilty of insider trading

Minor correction: she was not convicted of insider trading. That charge was dismissed. She was only convicted of lying to investigators.

[bhk]

I can't find any evidence that she was ever charged with insider trading.

The judge dismissed a charge of "securities fraud", which claimed that she had defrauded investors in her own company by making false statements to the public.

The jury convicted her of "false statements", obstruction, and conspiracy.

[ada1981]

I’m curious about trading on your supply chain partners.

Can Apple buy stock in a chip manufacture before they sign a deal with them?

Can they short them before not renewing a contract?

Another way of asking, is trading other companies based on insider knowledge from your company legal?

[teo_zero]

Oh right, I had misread the last one. Of course it's no, no, and no.

[teo_zero]

No, no, and yes.

[ada1981]

Do you mean no, no, and no?

#3 is a general case of specific cases 1 & 2.

I don’t think 3 can be a yes if 2&3 are a no.

[teo_zero]

Of course you're right, I had misread the third question.

[colinmorelli]

Slightly clarified my comment via a parenthetical. "Non-public" in this context refers to information which would only be available to those with a fiduciary responsibility and/or a confidentiality obligation to the organization.

I was trying to avoid the use of "insider," because people tend to assume that means employees or directors, but that is not the case. Outside organizations who have, as an example, signed an NDA with the organization may learn of material non-public information, and trading on that could constitute insider trading.

[nightpool]

> "Non-public" in this context refers to information which would only be available to those with a fiduciary responsibility and/or a confidentiality obligation to the organization.

Right, but information available to those with a confidentiality obligation can still be traded on if acquired legally. That's the crucial point. It's not enough for it to be non-public and material, you must also be in breach of a fiduciary duty (or acting in concert with somebody who is). For example, if a Boeing CEO was at a coffee shop discussing an upcoming acquisition at the table next to you, you'd be able to trade on it, even though it was confidential information not available to the general public and obviously material to Boeing's stock price.

[colinmorelli]

It's not required – to my knowledge – that specific person disclosing the information be in breach of a fiduciary duty, as one could easily overcome that by disclosing to someone who discloses it to someone else, who then trades on it.

The scenario you mentioned is generally understood to be permissible, but it's not exactly clear to me why. Perhaps that the information became "public" (whether intentional or not) when discussing it in a public forum such as a coffee shop?

[ipaddr]

If she put it on twitter could she legally trade on the tip? If I saw the tweet and trade is that legal?

[Someone]

> If she put it on twitter could she legally trade on the tip?

IANAL, but if she traded a picosecond after tweeting: no. If she has zillions of followers and traded a year later: yes, because ’the public’ could be aware of the content of the tweet. A judge will have to decide on in-betweens. When doing that they likely will take into account how open Twitter/X is.

> If I saw the tweet and trade is that legal?

Again, IANAL, but I would think so, if she has ‘enough’ followers.