[phkahler]

What nobody ever talks about is that some of the old organic stuff (roots, leaves) in the thawing permafrost did not grow there in recent times because that stuff won't grow in permafrost. This means the thawing of the permafrost is not new and that the area used to have more stuff growing there than it does now. We should expect a greening of parts of Alaska if the warming continues and growth resumes.

[mort96]

Why do you think people should be talking about that more? I would think people aren't talking about it much because, well, it's kind of obvious.

[phkahler]

There is a narrative that melting permafrost is new and some kind of global catastrophe. That narrative falls apart if we point out that there's really nothing new going on.

Sea levels have risen more than present levels in prior interglacial periods too, but that's another related catastrophe.

[Lutger]

You make two mistakes here which are very common in this topic. One, just because there have been plants where there is permafrost before, doesn't mean there is nothing new about this event. Everybody who studies a little bit about climate change will soon learn that the real problem isn't the change perse, its how fast it is happening. And that is also quite unprecedented.

Second, and most fatally, yes there was a lot of vegetation there. There was also a time when there were plants on the antarctic. The sea levels were 20 meter higher back then, which may give you a clue it could be a slight problem, as you yourself indicate.

There were mass extinction events before. Natural or not, some people might say they would feel humankind going extinct or almost so is exactly what a catastrophe is, pointing out something similar has happened before doesn't make it any better.

So no, the narrative doesn't fall apart. Furthermore, it is not a narrative in the first place, it is a risk assesment based on scientific understanding. There is no drama, just facts and theories. The hand-wavy 'it is all natural thus its good because we live in a just world and that magically makes everything okay and eco-logical and stuff', now that is a narrative.

[zardo]

Why bother to thaw out a turkey, just throw it in the oven. It couldn't possibly matter how quickly the temperature changes.

[Johnny555]

You can cook a frozen turkey, it just takes a little longer.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/cook-a-frozen-turkey-483280

[javman]

The reason why melting permafrost is considered a global catastrophe is that it's a feedback loop that will accelerate warming. There is massive carbon that has been frozen in the permafrost. Permafrost melts > the organic matter decomposes > more CO2 released into atmosphere > warming happens faster.

[outside1234]

Climate change in of itself is not the problem - it is the rate of change at which it will occur that is the problem such that we can't adapt to it (ie. stop populating Florida etc. etc.)

[throwbadubadu]

The earth was once a hot fireball, so if for any strange reason it would turn into one again we can all be relieved, say that isn't new and post funny "this is fine" dogs? What kind of logic is that.

Time scales are huge, 1 year is different than 100 years than 100000 years than 1 million years.. what's "new" is very relative, come on.

You really want to still state today that global warming (to what permafrost thawing relates) is a narrative?

> Sea levels have risen more than present levels in prior interglacial periods too, but that's another related catastrophe.

Why you mean not? Does it matter if at that time fewer than 100 millions of humans inhabitated earth, and now we have billions.. and more than the number above will be threatened by sea level rise?

[Johnny555]

I don't understand how greening formerly frozen Alaska is not part of a global catastrophe?

[patall]

I have no idea above this, but aren't there plants growing on permafrost? As permafrost only starts in a depth of a few inches, those plants may well enter permafrost if they are in the ground above and slowly get submerged more and more.

[itishappy]

Wonder if anything might still be alive in there?

[mrspuratic]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/jan/21/arctic-zombi...

You're welcome.