[SCdF]

Yes, Apple can do what it wants, unless it can't because the EU tells it that it can't, lawyers courts litigation etc. I get that.

What does that have to do with being asked to pay $400k/month for a free app that you made $0 from being considered by the person I replied to as "better for developers and users in the EU."?

[simondotau]

It has everything to do with it. We don't necessarily disagree about what we think Apple should do. My argument here is that I care about the GPL being respected, which forces me to respect the fundamental principle of distributing code with coercive license terms, whether or not the coercion involves money. If Apple doesn't want to give their intellectual property away for free, they shouldn't be required to, even if it doing so is often the norm. Even if Apple had followed that norm in some other contexts in the past.

If we were discussing desktop operating systems, this is the moment where I would advocate switching to a properly Free Software (or near-Free) software ecosystem. Unfortunately there's nothing for me to advocate when it comes to smartphones; there aren't any serious recommendations to make which aren't catastrophically impractical for all but the most obsessive Richard Stallman acolyte.

[wasmitnetzen]

There is a fundamental difference you're ignoring: the GPL is not a monopoly of any sort, Apple is part of a duopoly.

[simondotau]

I’m not ignoring it. I’m saying one is great and one sucks, but they both scaffold upon the same legal principle so decry the latter at your peril.

[dns_snek]

Apple is not giving away intellectual property for free.

1. They're already charging for access to SDKs and services via their $100 annual developer fee. Quote from Apple:

> Membership includes all the tools, resources, and support you need to develop and distribute apps, including access to beta software, app services, testing tools, app analytics, and more.

2. In any case, reverse engineering, modifications, and distribution of IP for the purposes of interoperability is protected under the Computer Programs Directive in the EU

[simondotau]

1. Irrelevant. You’re not receiving unlimited distribution rights with that particular purchase.

2. The directive gives end users the right to reverse engineer, modify, and make PRIVATE copies of intellectual property for the purposes of interoperability. It doesn’t create a new avenue for the redistribution of intellectual property.

[dns_snek]

I get it, so they get to make up new fees that previously didn't exist and claim they're a reasonable way to comply. If they get accused of not having enough toilets at the office, they can simply build one and charge $10000 per use to "cover operating expenses", brilliant! That's what this is.

Can you imagine if AMD or Intel tried to charge a fee to every program written using their instruction set? How about your web browser or keyboard manufacturer wanting a cut of your revenue? Is that ridiculous enough yet? Apple derives almost the entirety of their value from their app ecosystem, so don't act like giving developers access to development tools used to be charity before this new fee came along. Conveniently it only affects one side of this monopolistic fence, too.

Above all, there's nothing being distributed, the tools and SDKs certainly aren't, and APIs aren't protected IP, courts have already settled that.

[simondotau]

These aren't new fees, it's an opt-in alternative pricing structure. For people who sell apps for money it is an attractive deal. (Which is a critical point. It's the people who sell apps who had the most to complain about. People who give apps away for free had little to complain about and don't have to do anything.)

Your third paragraph is technically incorrect. Even the simplest iOS binary includes fragments of statically linked Apple intellectual property. Software piracy is software piracy, no matter how simple the app.

[dns_snek]

> People who give apps away for free had little to complain about and don't have to do anything.

Pray tell, when can I publish my porn app on iOS for free?

Apple doesn't want it in their stores, which is fair, but I heard there was this piece of regulation coming around that gave us the right to sideload, and the right to use alternative browsers!

At this point I just look forward to the day they get hit with the spicy fines of percentage annual revenue. If you think that having to pay a fee to exercise your lawful rights will be allowed to stand, I have bad news.

> Software piracy is software piracy, no matter how simple the app.

The law also considers fair use, which is allowed infringement. Additionally, EU courts have ruled that "functional" parts of computer programs aren't protected at all.

[waffleiron]

When you put a sticker on your car, it interfaces with intellectual property of the car manufacturer. It would be absurd if you had to pay BMW each time you modify your car, or say play a song over the integrated radio because that’s only possible due to their IP.

[simondotau]

Yes, that would be absurd. It’s also not even remotely analogous to redistributing intellectual property.