[andrewstuart]

You’ll never know if you’re being discriminated against due to age. Not here in Australia anyway, no one would ever say out loud. You just don’t get selected.

I did go for a job recently where we had a great phone interview and the guy essentially said “everything looks great we just need to meet in person” and when we met in person I visibly saw his expression change. Something about my appearance, either age or weight or both. He emailed no thanks after.

[JKCalhoun]

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down.

Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply repeated it.

Make of that what you will.

[SoftTalker]

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs.

I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release.

I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at work past 5:00. The sun will come up tomorrow and nobody will die.

So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person.

[scruple]

I'm pushing into my mid-40s and it's the same story here. I won't do it. I've pulled 90-hour weeks in my career. Weeks on end. Literally working > 12 hour days nonstop for over 30 days. Because someone else fucked up, lied, didn't properly manage the situation... The why isn't even important anymore. I see the why every single day at every single employer. Nothing seems to be changing on that front. Regardless, I'm done with heroics.

Right now, I can still whip systems into shape. I am still massively effective. But if I squint I can see the horizon where I'm not effective and I'm slowly coming to terms with it. Maybe the economy and industry will be right at that point in time and I can pivot to my own thing. Maybe it won't and I'll be forced into early retirement. I'm planning for the latter but hoping for the former.

[YZF]

I'm in my 50s and I don't think I changed that much. I pushed back on all these things when I was in my 30s. I avoided going to work for companies that had reputation of being badly managed. I never asked "how high" when someone said "jump". Never. I was good at what I did and that was more than enough. I was always highly opinionated and independent and it was never a problem finding great teams where that was valued.

I still don't mind working longer hours when I'm excited about something.

The all-nighters are definitely gone. But that was basically when I hit 30 or so. And when I did work all night, it's because I enjoyed doing it and I could do it. I started as a teen on personal projects.

On the pro side, I've got enough experience that I avoid a lot of mistakes that I've made when I was younger, and I'm able to help the teams I lead avoid those same mistakes. That makes a huge difference.

[JKCalhoun]

I'd let the applicant make that call though.

I know what you're saying though. I'm like you in that regard — so over the bullshit.

At the same time that can bring some levity (is that the right word in this case?) to the team.

I was often the cool head when deadlines were creeping up and the app was seemingly out of control. I was often the one that pushed back on management, pushed back on design, marketing.

A few younger engineers let me know when I retired that they appreciated my "honesty", ha ha.

[coldtea]

All of the above should be illegal across the industry: "the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters", except for specific stuff on-call for an emergency (and paid overtime respectively or hired for night shifts, e.g. in case of datacenter stuff).

[chaosmonger7]

I am also in this age bracket and totally agree.

Sorry to tell you kids, age is not like race or sex.

There is a huge difference between what you are getting if you hire me now vs when I was 25. It is two completely different people.

At 25, I wouldn't have even asked how high. I would have just repeatedly jumped as high as I could.

Now, if I don't feel like jumping and you push me to jump I will just quit because I can.

Not to mention, if you learn new things as quickly at 55 as you did at 25 you are lucky because I surely do not.

If you are young and can't understand this perspective, don't worry. You will someday.

[Viliam1234]

Similar here. Also, when I am learning the 20th framework for doing essentially the same thing in a slightly different way / in yet another language / better fitting some other framework, I am simply not as curious as I used to be.

[mixmastamyk]

If you do hire them and put them in a leadership position, you’ll most likely not have any of the mentioned issues.

Oh, and move faster over the medium term because everything doesn’t have to be written three times.

That’s what experience does.

[iwontberude]

Also the older I get in this profession the less my wrists and fingers will let me do. I honestly worry about my career later and whether I will qualify for any assistance if I am disabled from it.

[neilv]

> So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person.

That's not altogether true. And it's going to get misinterpreted by young startup founders without a lot of experience.

[seanmcdirmid]

Age discrimination is real, and impossible to prove. Unless there is a push like the diversity one we have now, it will remain that way. And it will affect all of us eventually (race and gender neutral), we all need to earn our FU money before 50 or else.

[andrewstuart]

“Call this an unfair generalization if you must but old people are no good at everything.”

Moe from The Simpsons.

[alephnan]

This is a case where statistics could prove of systemic discrimination and statistical anomalies

[bigstrat2003]

They can prove statistical anomalies, sure. But no amount of statistics can prove discrimination (contrary to popular belief these days).

[Terr_]

> But no amount of statistics can prove

By that logic [0] no amount of data can prove anything, and the label "unproven" becomes meaningless.

(Especially if the twist-ending is that you're trapped in a dream and this conversation isn't happening.)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon

[coldtea]

With the right laws, a company could still be fined if they don't meet age percentage quota, so there's that.

"Hmm, all your hires are < 30 huh? OK, we don't care if you intended to discriminate or not, here's the fine".

[harimau777]

That's only the case if one believes that certain groups of people truly are superior or inferior.