[kirse]

It’s fucking hard, and it’s not glamorous

"Fucking hard" compared to what? Things I'd qualify under the category of "fucking hard":

- Agricultural Farming

- Lifetime debilitating disease / health issue

- Being enslaved or a POW

- Living in a 3rd world country

- Moving West in the 1800s

- Fighting in the American Revolutionary or Civil War

This narrative that starting a company is "fucking hard" is all part of the SV/SF mythos that needs a smooth stone straight to the forehead.

[exclusiv]

I understand your sentiment, but one's experience does not need to manifest like the ones you listed to be considered hard.

You listed one career choice and agriculture is actually the easiest industry. #2 lowest failure rate in 1 year, #1 lowest after 5 and after 10 years [1]. What you thought was fucking hard is objectively not compared to every other industry from BLS data. Although I'd still say it's a startup and is thus fucking hard personally.

Starting a company is very easy. Building a successful and sustainable one is fucking hard.

I've built a few successful companies but did it while having income (both active and passive). I recommend the same for anyone's first endeavor. I also recommend having a partner or two and maybe ONLY go solo after you've built a successful business. It's not glamorous being a startup CEO and can be very lonely without partners.

50% of businesses fail by year 5

And 80% of small businesses have no employees. Most of the 50% that survive to year 5 are just paying bills and aren't self-sustaining businesses that have enterprise value and can be sold.

If you want to be a one person show, yeah that's not hard in a service business. If you are average, 50% shot to make it 5 years.

If we're talking about building something that kicks off actual profit and has employees, and outperforms the opportunity cost of working for someone else or taking an equity stake in existing business, it is most certainly fucking hard.

To the parent - if you have savings and get a partner or two - I say keep applying but go for the startup too. The best businesses in my opinion are ones that make money closer to day 1 than year X. Figure that path out. Riches in niches. Don't worry about the macro environment.

[1] https://www.lendingtree.com/business/small/failure-rate/

[therealcamino]

"You listed one career choice and agriculture is actually the easiest industry. #2 lowest failure rate in 1 year, #1 lowest after 5 and after 10 years [1]. What you thought was fucking hard is objectively not compared to every other industry from BLS data. "

You are pretty clearly defining "hard" differently than the poster you're responding to, as somehow being related only to the chance of a venture failing. But obviously that's not what "hard" means when the other examples include being a prisoner of war.

[exclusiv]

That's exactly right and my point. The person I'm replying to is the one that used an irrelevant definition.

The context of the entire discussion was NOT for the parent to decide to apply for jobs or become a prisoner of war.

It was to work for the man or do a startup. And building a successful startup is fucking hard.

Furthermore, nobody in SV is using the definition that the parent is irate about when they say building a startup is hard. They're using the one I've outlined.

[jallen_dot_dev]

Compared to a 9-5 in tech? Which is what they're suggesting instead.

What is the point of moralizing?

[kirse]

What is the point of moralizing?

Because the guy is framing his discouragement as "coming from a place of love" when in reality it takes roughly 2-3 weeks to go from zero-to-[LLC accepting payments on Stripe]. Which means it's really not that "fucking hard" at all to start small and begin the search for paying customers.

I've been on this board for 17 years back when it was originally called "Startup News" and full of new-company founders, sold 2 small SW apps back in 2009, and have also done the F100 corporate adventure. The emotional challenges of starting your own company can be easier than the 9-5.

[exclusiv]

Starting is easy. I don't think the parent you replied to was talking about that procedural part of it. The parent is weighing working for someone or starting a newco.

Also it's a completely different ballgame when you build a company that has employees versus an app.

We don't know what path the parent was talking about or what their business would be. We don't know their financial position.

Regardless, it's hard to build a successful business. Especially on your first attempt.

[johnnyanmac]

>when in reality it takes roughly 2-3 weeks to go from zero-to-[LLC accepting payments on Stripe]

okay, now tell my how long and how much it costs to g from new LLC to self-sustainable. Even some of the most popular startups aren't profitable for years.

[jannes]

That violent metaphor wasn’t necessary to make your point.