It's not hyperbole when he listed multiple examples and issues which clearly highlight why he calls it that.
I don't think there was anything hyperbolic or disrespectful in that post at all. If I was a maintainer there and someone put in the effort to list out the specific issues like that I would be very happy for the feedback.
People need to stop seeing negative feedback as some sort of slight against them. It's not. Any feedback should be seen as a gift, negative or positive alike. We live in a massive attention-competition world, so to get anyone to spend the time to use, test and go out of their way to even write out in detail their feedback on something you provide is free information. Not just free information, but free analysis.
Really wish that we could all understand and empathize with frustration on software has nothing to do with the maintainers or devs unless directly targeted.
You could say possibly that the overall tone of the post was "disrespectful" because of its negativity, but I think receiving that kind of post which ties together not just the issues in some bland objective manner but highlights appropriately the biggest pain points and how they're pain points in context of a workflow is incredibly useful.
I am constantly pushing and begging for this feedback on my work, so to get this for free is a gift.
“User-hostile” is not a term to use when you intend on giving useful constructive criticism. User-hostile is an accusation. I’m sorry that you’re so desperate for people to give you feedback that you’ll stoop down to the level of engaging with people who obviously seek to complain first and improve second, but…come on, your position as someone that ‘makes things’ is FAR from unique in this community. I think that a lot of people here understand the value of feedback, and the possible negative and positive attributes of feedback. It’s fair to point out this quite valid negative attribute.
What I said is an utterly factual statement: I found the experience to be user-hostile. You might have a different experience, and I will not deny you your experience even in the face of your clearly-stated intention to deny me mine.
Moreover, I already conveyed my understanding of and appreciation for the work open-source maintainers do, and I outright said above that I intend no disrespect.
“I have the right to say what I say” is a disingenuous and thought-terminating. What you are essentially saying is that you purely intended for this to be your soapbox, that you see your role here as dispensing your wisdom, and not to have any actual conversation other than one where people agree with you.
GP can just as easily say that they have a right to their opinion that your classification of the experience is invalid. “Yeah but I was talking about how I felt!” just doesn’t pass the smell test. Mature people can have their mind changed and can see when they were being a little over the top. Your “I felt this way, so I will always feel this way, and there’s nothing you can do to stop me” attitude is not a hill worth dying on.
It's very, very, very annoying how much some people are tripping over themselves to pretend a llama.cpp wrapper is some gift of love from saints to the hoi polloi. Y'all need to chill. It's good work and good. It's not great or the best thing ever or particularly high on either simple user friendliness or power user friendly. It's young. Let it breathe. Let people speak.
What troubles me is how many projects are using ollama. I can't stand that I have to create a model file for every model using ollama. I have a terabyte of models that are mostly GGUF, which is somewhere around 70 models of various sizes. I rotate in and out of new versions constantly. GGUF is a ~container~ that already has most of the information needed to run the models! I felt like I was taking crazy pills when so many projects started using it for their backend.
Text-generation-webui is leagues ahead in terms of plug and play. Just load the model and it will get you within 98% of what you need to run any model from HF. Making adjustments to generation settings, prompt and more is done with a nice GUI that is easily saved for future use.
Using llama.cpp is also very easy. It takes seconds to build on my windows computer with cmake. Compiling llama.cpp with different parameters for older/newer/non-existent GPUs is very, very simple... even on windows, even for a guy that codes in Python 97% of the time and doesn't really know a thing about C++. The examples folder in llama.cpp is gold mine of cool things run and they get packaged up into *.exe files for dead simple use.
Thank you for sharing, it's sooooo rare to get signal amongst noise here re: LLMs.
I'm really, really surprised to hear this:
- I only committed in a big way to local a week ago. TL;DR: Stable LM 3B doing RAG meant my every-platform app needed to integrate local finally.
- Frankly didn't hear of Ollama till I told someone about Nitro a couple weeks back and they celebrated they didn't have to Ollama anymore.
- I can't even imagine what the case for another container would be.
- I'm very appreciative of anyone doing work. No shade on Ollama.
- But I don't understand the seemingly strong uptake to it if it's the case you need to go get special formatted models for it. There's other GUIs, so it can't be because it's a GUI. Maybe it's the blend of GUI + OpenAI API server? Any idea?? There's clearly some product-market fit here* but I'm at as complete a loss as you.
* maybe not? HN has weird voting behavior lately and this got to like #3 with 0 comments last night, then it sorta stays there once it has momentum.
- p.s. hear hear on the examples folder. 4 days, that's it, from 0 to on Mac / iOS / Windows / Android / Linux. I'm shocked how many other Dart projects kinda just threw something together quick for one or two platforms and just...ran with it. At half-speed of what they could have. All you have to do is pattern after the examples to get the speed. Wrestling with Flutter FFI...I understand avoiding lol. Last 4 days were hell. https://github.com/Telosnex/fllama
"It's not great or the best thing ever or particularly high on either *simple user friendliness* or power user friendly."
But there are multiple reports in this thread about how easy of an install it was. I'm adding my own in. It was super simple.
It was way easier than installing Automatic1111. It's easier than building llama.cpp.
SnowLprd had some good points for power users although I think he was overly critical in his phrasing. But what's got y'all tripping thinking this is hard?
I don't think there was anything hyperbolic or disrespectful in that post at all. If I was a maintainer there and someone put in the effort to list out the specific issues like that I would be very happy for the feedback.
People need to stop seeing negative feedback as some sort of slight against them. It's not. Any feedback should be seen as a gift, negative or positive alike. We live in a massive attention-competition world, so to get anyone to spend the time to use, test and go out of their way to even write out in detail their feedback on something you provide is free information. Not just free information, but free analysis.
Really wish that we could all understand and empathize with frustration on software has nothing to do with the maintainers or devs unless directly targeted.
You could say possibly that the overall tone of the post was "disrespectful" because of its negativity, but I think receiving that kind of post which ties together not just the issues in some bland objective manner but highlights appropriately the biggest pain points and how they're pain points in context of a workflow is incredibly useful.
I am constantly pushing and begging for this feedback on my work, so to get this for free is a gift.