[palata]

It implies that "the Agile framework" is mostly cargo cult. In the rest of the comment, I mention that IMO, common sense is acquired with experience.

It's just a fact that I believe needs to be accepted. Just like the fact that "writing good code" is not something you learn only by reading a book or passing a certification, but rather something you acquire with practice.

[foofie]

> It implies that "the Agile framework" is mostly cargo cult.

That's your personal assertion, and one that contrasts with the very nature of Agile.

For instance, Agile is a set of principles devised to be applied arbitrarily by teams and adapted to their needs, which clearly tells you that "common sense" is the very basis of Agile.

Claiming that a set of principles devised to be applied based on common sense are "mostly cargo cult" and arguing "common sense" is somehow an alternative mess you are already commenting on something you are entirely oblivious about, and trying to denigrate something you don't even understand.

So what point do you think you're making, other than being needlessly contrarian?

[palata]

> That's your personal assertion

Of course it is :-). I never pretended it was an objective fact!

> and one that contrasts with the very nature of Agile

Wait, we were talking about "the Agile framework", not "the very nature of Agile".

> So what point do you think you're making, other than being needlessly contrarian?

The point I am trying to make is that the implementation of Agile is usually cargo cult. Companies say in the job offers that they "are agile". Managers have stand ups every day where nobody listens to anything the others have to say, but don't even question the practice. Estimating "stories" for years without apparently seeing that they never had estimates that were better than truly random guesses, instead of thinking that "maybe estimations don't work in our case, why?".

I am not saying that nobody has common sense anywhere, or that the agile framework never works. Just that I have seen Agile methodologies being applied for long enough, and the vast majority of the time, those who applied them were cargo culting big time.

> trying to denigrate something you don't even understand.

Are you implying that because I don't like the Agile religion, I must not understand it?