[JumpCrisscross]

> using it will provide a very _visible_ signal to the airlines. If they're losing ticket sales

They’re not. And neither is Boeing. If someone using Kayak isn’t willing to contact their elected, they’re irrelevant. (Complaints might register if you’re a frequent flier who books through the airline and gives written feedback. But I haven’t seen evidence of that yet.)

[wand3r]

> They're not

Boeings stock price is down 18% this month. Sure it's not because of Kayak, this is simply another data point that consumers are wary of Boeing. Boeing is massively fucking up and even though procurement cycles are extremely long, it definitely will have an impact. They are a plane and rocket company that can't build planes or rockets

[gnu8]

> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month.

I hear Warren Buffet’s voice over my shoulder telling me “Boeing stock is on sale.” Boeing is a huge defense contractor that is never going away. Maybe this is the bottom of their current crisis and it is a good time to buy?

[otherme123]

A stock falling prices doesn't mean it is cheap. Buffett sold J&J just because they changed management, and he probably wasn't confortable with the new bosses. They don't have any other know drawbacks, and if you read investment media each one of them has one theory.

OTOH Buffett has said many times that stocks related with flying are usually a bad investment. And even when he invest, he says that he doesn't know why he keep doing it, as he knows it's a mistake.

And finally, he usually says that he no longer buy "cheap companies to take a last puff of a cigar butt", but "great companies that are going to do great forever".

Now do the aggregate: bad management + air stock + company in decline = not cheap for Buffett. The small investor could cash a rebound if it happens, but a behemot like B&H is not interested.

[JumpCrisscross]

Boeing is an institution. Boeing shareholders are not. If the problems are systemic, the government can put Boeing into bankruptcy to wipe the slate clean.

[sitzkrieg]

just like the automobile industry...

[JumpCrisscross]

> like the automobile industry

Yes. GM and Chrysler went bankrupt [1].

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_re...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Chapter_11_reorgani...

[S201]

> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month.

Sounds like a good time to buy it then. There's a 0% chance the government would let Boeing go down so it will rebound just like it did with the last 737 issue a few years ago.

[krisoft]

> it will rebound just like it did with the last 737 issue a few years ago

I’m eyeballing the boeing 5Y stock graph and I’m not seeing that rebound. It was around USD 330 when the MCAS issue grounded them. Then it was riding above 300 until the march of 2020. Collapsed there presumably due to Covid and then the highest ever it climbed was last year december with USD 260.

It seems if you bought stock just after their grounding you are very much in the red with that to this day. So where is the rebound?

[S201]

Lion Air 610 crashed October 29, 2018. BA closed at $357 that day. It continued to go down to $304 on December 17th 2018. By February 25 2019 it hit a high of $440. A month later Ethiopian Airlines 302 crashed sending BA down again. The larger issue beyond this was covid sending the stock plummeting so it didn't really have a chance to rebound after the affected 737 models were recertified and not grounded anymore.

But you're coming at this from a long term investing point of view. If you're day trading or swing trading (which is likely given it's an individual stock and buying individual stocks for a long term investment is rarely a good idea) then it presents an opportunity. Of course, nothing is a sure bet in the market but seeing something like Boeing down 18% can present a short term opportunity for speculators. Would I put BA in my retirement funds? Absolutely not. Would I try to swing trade BA in a case like this? There's a good chance.

[ChadNauseam]

Just because the government won't let Boeing go bankrupt doesn't mean Boeing shares will provide the exact same return to investors no matter what. An incident like this should reduce our expectations of how much Boeing will pay investors in dividends/buybacks, so the share price should be lower.

[JumpCrisscross]

> because the government won't let Boeing go bankrupt

This keeps being repeated. It isn’t true. The government won’t let Boeing go under. It’s fine letting it go bankrupt.

[rurban]

The goverment might try to give Boeing back from McDonnel/Chicago to Boeing. As it should have happened years ago already. It's critical infrastructure for them.

[JumpCrisscross]

> Boeings stock price is down 18% this month

Due to the threat of damages from airlines for the cost of groundings and regulation. Not passengers who book through aggregators checking a box.

[simonklitj]

I’ll quote wand3r back to you:

> Sure it's not because of Kayak

[JumpCrisscross]

Neither is it because consumers are wary. They may be. But not in a market-impacting way.

“I won’t fly Boeing” is 2024’s Kony 2012.

[dingnuts]

For that to be true, the whole Boeing fiasco would have to be a hoax, when it instead seems to be becoming a very concerning pattern.

I'm very happy to learn that JetBlue is AirBus-only in this thread. I already am an anxious flyer with a trip coming up in six months and it'd be a lie to say I wasn't considering just driving, even though that's statistically more dangerous, it's a situation where I have more perceived control.

[JumpCrisscross]

> an anxious flyer with a trip coming up in six months and it'd be a lie to say I wasn't considering just driving

Sure. But someone travelling once in six months, and actively weighing flying versus driving, isn’t a market-moving customer.

I have no doubt some demand destruction is happening. But it’s not along frequent fliers. Airlines are clamouring to get their planes recertified because they know they’ll be filled.

[stickfigure]

> “I won’t fly Boeing” is 2024’s Kony 2012.

I'm going to call BS on this. Airline passengers are willing to endure all manner of indignities just to shave a few bucks off their ticket price. I'll believe Boeing is in trouble after Spirit and Ryanair go out of business.

On the other hand, Kony is apparently still walking around free. So maybe the comparison is apt.

[csours]

I bet a few people at Boeing got heartburn about this option being added.

[JumpCrisscross]

> bet a few people at Boeing got heartburn about this option being added

Sure. They’re just not the revenue folks. It’s a sign of a degraded brand. Not a per se threat.

[csours]

Revenue folks will care about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39106480