[pjmlp]

You can see horrors in any language.

The problem is called lack of skills, not the language.

[groovy2shoes]

Was my post too long for you? You must have missed this part: "reasons that often have little to do with Java as a language".

[pjmlp]

I've saw it, but the remark about the ecosystem still reflects over the language, hence my post.

[groovy2shoes]

My point isn't that there's something intrinsic to Java that leads to nightmarish codebases, but there must be something associated with the Java brand name that leads to it. I haven't seen such a large percentage of this lack of skill affiliated with any other language (granted, I haven't spent much time working with, e.g., VB or PHP codebases).

I don't know what it is about Java that seems to encourage the mess, but there is something.

[pjmlp]

You can see this in any enterprise code base.

I have seen lots of awful code, when you combine software design done by out of touch architects, with lousy enterprise coders, regardless of the chosen language.