[pdimitar]

A commendable effort but to me they are not going far enough. I'd honestly just start over, implement what seems to make sense and only add extra stuff on top if there's a huge demand for it + that demand is well-argumented for.

I get why they don't want to do that and I respect their project a lot. But to me imitating this ancient toolchain is just perpetuating a problem.

[ktm5j]

I get where you're coming from, but there's an enormous ecosystem of software written for posix. You wouldn't just be starting over with new standards.. you'd be tossing out a whole world of software that we already have.

[pdimitar]

Well, I was more talking about just having an extra terminal program that launched an alternative shell (like oilshell / nushell etc.) and occasionally migrate one of your legacy scripts to that and see if it fits.

I am definitely not advocating for a switch overnight. That would of course be too disruptive and is not a realistic scenario.

In terms of POSIX I'd start with just removing some of the quirkiest command line switches and function arguments. Just remove one and give it 3 months. Monitor feedback. Rinse and repeat.

That's what I would do.

[lobocinza]

They can bait first and switch later.

[appplication]

Agree, I had the same thought reading the above comments. GNU is not holy correctness, it’s a first draft that worked well. Opinionated reimplementation with divergence isn’t a bad thing.

[jchw]

Trust me, if we were all starting from scratch, I would agree. However, I am not ready to drop compatibility with GNU coreutils at the moment.

[pdimitar]

Nobody is forcing you to. We can have alternative stacks for as long as we like. Any new stack is strictly opt-in.

[jchw]

I mention "GNU compatibility" for Bun Shell specifically because there are some incredibly commonly used GNU extensions even in the JS ecosystem like mkdir -p, and yes, even the GNU specific find extensions. I don't think we need total compatibility for everything. However, OTOH, Nushell is targeting being the default system shell, not just something off to the side. They could decide to be not GNU compatible and it's not like I'd complain, but I agree with their choice to be GNU compatible 100%, and it makes me more likely to consider it on my own machines.

I don't feel as though anyone is forcing me to do anything though, that's definitely not the tone I intended to convey.

[flexagoon]

I mean, there are certain projects that do that, eg. I'd consider ripgrep to be "grep but done right"