[raverbashing]

One thing that seems to be confirmed over and over is how people who come up with "just negotiate with them" seem to have a thinking process that does not span over a couple of days

Funny how those people never seem to have any reservations to what hamas did, or any of the history of the past 20 yrs

[lamontcg]

> any of the history of the past 20 yrs

we were attacked by 'thugs' on 9/11.

afghanistan was still a predictably disastrous war.

[flandish]

Funny how your thinking does not span over 20 years.

For well over 100 years ago England was messing with the region. (Sykes picot)

Getting european and american nation state influence and support of genocide out of the middle east is completely appropriate.

[jedimind]

[flagged]

[raverbashing]

Not without reservations, but it's not like Israel's neighbors tolerated its existence

> like the perpetual ethnic-cleansing

Funny you ask that, makes me wonder what happened to the jews of the levantine and arab countries

[jedimind]

> Not without reservations, but it's not like Israel's neighbors tolerated its existence

Of course not, why on earth would anyone tolerate a bunch of invaders taking over their land? Zionists are really still making that argument as if it makes a lick of sense. No sane human would react otherwise.

>Funny you ask that, makes me wonder what happened to the jews of the levantine and arab countries

What came first? Exactly, Zionists started ethnic-cleansing Palestinians and IN RESPONSE their neighbors acted in kind, which by the way was exactly what Zionists wanted anyway. They wanted and needed as many jews in occupied Palestine as possible, so it was an emotional response from their neighbors that was a moral and strategic mistake.

[Morte42]

For Zionists that isnt just land, its the land they got from god after Moses freed them from Egypt and split the sea to get them out of there and then close the sea on the pursuing Egyptians.

The point of reclaiming Zion is to ultimately reclaim Mount Temple to build the Final Temple and usher in the end of days and an eternity of paradise.

One of the strange things with Israel is a lot of people that are pro Israel dont know anything about the nation. Ignorance usually breeds hate and not love. Or maybe being darker skinned is the key.

[prmph]

I hope you know how the Muslims acquired the lands they live on now, down through the centuries? Hint, it wasn't by asking nicely.

And the numerous attacks on the Israelis since it was formed, after each of which Israel gained more land?

And the numerous offers made to the Palestinians for a state which they refused?

[flandish]

No. It’d land they agreed to take with the help of england who was at risk of losing ww1.

Zionism did not exist until the late 19th century and was based in Berlin at the time england suggested splitting up the middle east.

The who “our history from God” thing is a retconn.

[jedimind]

Is this a joke? It surely has to be. No one cares what some fantasy book teaches. God is not a registered real estate broker, as they also say: "Most Zionists don't even believe in God but they do believe that he 'promised' them Palestine"

Regardless, your narrative is false because we know exactly what the founding father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, wrote about Zionism in great detail in his book "Der Judenstaat" and it was a colonial project from day 1. They even considered colonizing Alaska or Uganda before they decided to colonize Palestine.

There is no hasbara you could tell me that I haven't heard before in my 20 years of dealing with zionists. All of your narratives contradict each other and try to deflect from the reality that "israel" is and was a colonial project from its inception.

[prmph]

And do you know what the Muslim nations believe, based on religious texts, about their right to be supreme in Middle east (and really the whole earth for that matter)? Granted, all these seem to be absurd, but you need to understand that the whole of the Middle East is based on myth-making. Israel is absolutely not exceptional in that.

Israelis/Jews ARE indigenous to Palestine. If they didn't want to live scattered amongst other peoples who regularly subjected them to pogroms, that is prerogative; It is not for me or you to judge. A substantial part of the Israelis are Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews, not the Ashkenazi who are being derided as "colonialists" (although that is also quite a suspect argument).

[Morte42]

Its not a joke, just to clarify this isnt my belief. I am telling you why Zion is worth so much to some people. In Judaism there will never be an end of days unless the final temple is built on Mount Temple, even for millions of years. But the issue is that if we try and speak logically to both this nation and its backers we will never win.

Noticed how little sympathy the people in Palestine get compared to people in Ukraine? Why do you think that is? If I was to say the Palestinians are Arab savages I would be reprimanded for being prejudice but making excuses for their continuing genocide isnt prejudice?

These commenters are just articulating the same venom that their parents and grandparents did, in a different way but its the same bile fundamentally. Preaching logic to hateful people that think they are superior makes as much sense in 2024 as it did in Malcolm X’s day. Dont bother trying to talk logic to people like that, they dont listen to your kind.

[Incipient]

Fwiw, I both sides are so bloodstained that neither is the right choice.

The absolute bare minimum of a position is "I'm taking the less bad side" but I think both are so awful neither honestly viable to support on a social level (political is different)