[withinboredom]

There's no such thing as fair use until you get to court (as a legal defense). Then, the court decides whether it is fair use or not. They may or may not agree with you. Only a court can determine what constitutes fair use (at least in the US).

So, if you are doing something and asserting "fair use," you are literally asking for someone to challenge you and prove it is not fair use.

[stale2002]

> There's no such thing as fair use until you get to court (as a legal defense)

Well the point is that it wouldn't go to court, as it would be completely legal.

So yes, if nobody sues you, then you are completely in the clear and aren't in trouble.

Thats what people mean by fair use. They mean that nobody is going to sue you, because the other person would lose the lawsuit, therefore your actions are safe and legal.

> you are literally asking for someone to challenge you and prove it is not fair use.

No, instead of that, the most likely circumstance is that nobody sues you, and you aren't in trouble at all, and therefore you did nothing wrong and are safe.

[withinboredom]

> as it would be completely legal.

Theft is never legal; that's why you can be sued. "Fair use" is a legal defense in the theft of copyrighted works.

> They mean that nobody is going to sue you, because the other person would lose the lawsuit

That hasn't stopped people from suing anyone ever. If they want to sue you, they'll sue you.

> and therefore you did nothing wrong and are safe.

If you steal a pen from a store, it's still theft even if nobody catches you; or cares.

[sgift]

> Theft is never legal; that's why you can be sued.

That's incorrect. You can be sued for anything. If it is theft or something else or nothing is decided by the courts.

[withinboredom]

That is entirely my point. It can only be decided by the courts. This being a civil matter, it has to be brought up by a lawsuit. Thus, you have to be sued and it has to be decided by the courts.

[stale2002]

> If you steal a pen from a store

Fortunately I am not talking about someone illegally taking property from someone else.

Instead I am talking about people taking completely legal actions that are protected by law.

> in the theft of copyrighted works

Actually, it wouldn't be theft if it was done in fair use. Instead it would be completely legal.

If nobody sues you and proves that it was illegal then you are completely safe, if you did this in fair use.

[withinboredom]

Did you read anything I wrote? If you are going to argue, it would be worth at least researching your opinion before writing. Caps used for emphasis, not yelling.

Firstly: Copyrighted work IS THE AUTHOR'S PROPERTY. They can control it however they wish via LICENSING.

Secondly: You don't have any "fair use rights" ... there is literally NO SUCH THING. "fair use" is simply a valid legal defense WHEN YOU STEAL SOMEONE'S WORK WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.

[mlrtime]

>control it however they wish

I'm jumping in the middle here, but this isn't true. They cannot control how they wish. They can only control under the limits of copyright law.

Copyright law does not extend to limiting how someone may or may not be inspired by the work. Copyright protects expression, and never ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, or discoveries.

[stale2002]

> They can control it however they wish via LICENSING.

This isn't true though. There are lots of circumstances where someone can completely ignore the licensing and it is both completely legal, and the author isn't going to take anyone to court over it.