[DyslexicAtheist]

AFAIK they are just rebranded "Clevo Computer" systems. On the downside if you order from Clevo you will be asked for upfront payment and then you have to go to court to get your money back :D ... so ordering from system76 gives you at least some assurance that you won't get stiffed.

[bluGill]

They are a large enough customer of Clevo that they get consulted on product design and changes. When Clevo ships something to system76, system76 already knows what hardware is there and that they have drivers for it. If you buy elsewhere it might look the same and seem to have the same specs, but Clevo might have put in some chip without linux drivers.

[DyslexicAtheist]

do they ship ISO keyboards meanwhile? I'd rather buy system76 but US ASCII keyboard is a deal-breaker.

which are the design differences in hardware? I do not see any real differences other than branding which isn't also offered by a bunch of other clevo resellers. having secureboot and system76 firmware would be a huge benefit and in my view the only value-add but that I you can do yourself because it's FOSS and there is no difference in HW

[trelane]

There's a lot. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414

You may find reading like that informative.

It's perhaps not surprising that the laptops that Clevo ships vs those they make for System76 are different. The fact that system76 ships coreboot and an open EC firmware should be a first clue.

Also, for the keyboard: Many or most of their keyboards are configurable these days. See https://github.com/pop-os/keyboard-configurator

The term for "the company that actually manufactures the computers for another company that sells them" is Original Design Manufacturer, ODM. All companies have them. https://www.unleashedsoftware.com/blog/oem-vs-odm-explained-...

Dell's supplier list is at Public Supplier List - Dell https://i.dell.com/sites/doccontent/corporate/corp-comm/en/D...

[DyslexicAtheist]

I know they have a keyboard configurator but that isn't a replacement for an ISO layout though.

Also I came across the thread in the past which you linked, where System76 debunks these assumptions. And I totally agree that a lot of work goes into this. But until now I have not actually seen any difference in chipsets? Custom firmware and branded Bios yes, and a lot of hours goes into verifying these things which I'm happy to pay for. But there is afaik no difference in the chips. You can also re-use the firmware / coreboot (e.g. from s76-DARP9 on a clevo-NS50AU) without issues.

This is an annoying amount of effort though and I would rather get this from system76 if they sold it with ISO keyboard than having to do it myself.

[trelane]

> But until now I have not actually seen any difference in chipsets?

System76 is not Apple. I don't know why you'd expect them to have a wholly new chip set.

Maybe you can flash a given Clevo with the "equivalent" system76 firmware. Maybe you can't. I don't think you're going to get support from either if you do that, though.

You can ask them about it; they're pretty great about responding honestly.

[DyslexicAtheist]

> System76 is not Apple. I don't know why you'd expect them to have a wholly new chip set.

I absolutely don't :)

I'm replying to this statement which I think isn't correct:

> it might look the same and seem to have the same specs, but Clevo might have put in some chip without linux drivers.

[brucethemoose2]

Thing is, there are plenty of affordable Clevo reseller, but I'm not sure System76 laptops are 'just' rebranded Clevos?

[DyslexicAtheist]

they are not if you consider the effort that goes into Pop_OS, firmware, coreboot, custom-BIOS and all the testing that is required for it. It's in many ways a phenomenal deal if this is all you need. And considering that you can re-use these things on a Clevo I'd rather support System76 in what they do.

However if you don't care about Pop_OS and really insist on an ISO keyboard then Clevo (or something like Tuxedo Computers) are better options.

When it comes to hardware a Clevo is a Texedo is a System76 is a Sager (and a bunch of others)

[trelane]

> When it comes to hardware a Clevo is a Texedo is a System76 is a Sager (and a bunch of others)

1. That's not necessarily a fact; I don't know that it's been established one way or the other. There may well be small variances in design at the hardware level

2. In a modern PC, firmware is a gigantic factor in how well an OS works on the hardware. See all the troubles with ACPI for a starting point. Even non-obvious things like fans depend greatly on firmware.[1]

In short, if you want to run Linux, buy a Linux computer, with support for as long as you plan on using it, from a company that supports Linux on the hardware.

If you don't, be prepared for random glitches due to the mismatch between OS and firmware.

[1] https://twitter.com/jeremy_soller/status/1322954630448427011