[housebear]

It gets A LOT colder here in Minnesota during winter than it does in Norway. I know we're an edge case for EVs and cold temperatures in the US, but it does seem a significant difference in the EV and temperature conversation. Is there an understanding around the "degree" at which specific degrees affect EV performance?

[kriberg]

That sounds a bit hyperbolic. Norway is a long country with multiple climate zones. Average temperature in March in Longyearbyen [1] is 3.4 F. Meanwhile, Embarrass, the coldest city in Minnesota according to Google, averages 8.3 F in January. Cold record in Norway is -60.5F, which is about the same as Minnesota's -60F.

According to folks living in Karasjok, the problem with EVs in extreme temperatures is the 12V starter battery capitulating once you dip below -40F. Petrol cars usually fail to start for the same reason.

[1]. https://en.climate-data.org/europa/norge/svalbard/longyearby... [2]. https://en.climate-data.org/north-america/united-states-of-a...

[gsk22]

While this is true, the comparison is meaningless without taking population into account.

Only 1700 people live in Longyearbyen. The majority of Norway's population lives in the southern part of the mainland, especially Oslo, with much warmer winters.

By contrast, the majority of Minnesota's population lives in the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro, which is considerably colder than Oslo or Bergen or Stavanger.

[pdabbadabba]

> It gets A LOT colder here in Minnesota during winter than it does in Norway.

As someone who hasn't spent a lot of time in Norway or Minnesota this seems very surprising—if only because the southernmost part of Norway appears to be substantially farther north than the northernmost part of Minnesota.

And the data I'm finding suggests that the average winter temp is about 5 degrees lower in Norway than Minnesota. Though none of the data I've found in a few minutes of googling seems very reliable and understanding that Norway in particular is a big place. The average temperature of Norway weighted by area is surely much lower than it would be weighted by population.

Does the gulf stream have an impact here, at least on southern Norway?

[vel0city]

The Gulf Stream and generally just being close to the ocean has a massive effect at making the climate a lot more mild in the North Atlantic.

Not only that, but due to the way the winds move in the US places like Minnesota and the Dakotas also tend to get absolutely hammered from the jet stream by arctic air.

[stolenmerch]

It gets colder in Minnesota during the winter.

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/68697~10405/Comparison-of...

[jibe]

Worst of both worlds - hotter in the summer and colder in the winter.

[nonameiguess]

Gulf stream but also just being near an ocean at all. Lots of factors other than how far north a place is impact average temperatures. Also, if you're looking at the average temperature of the entire country of Norway versus the entire state of Minnesota, that isn't going to reflect where most people actually live. A whole lot of Norway is Svalbard and north of the arctic circle with virtually no permanent human settlements. Most of the population is in the south on the coast. Most of Minnesota's population will be near the lake, which is still more moderate than deep on the plains, but the difference likely won't be as stark as it is in Norway.

Heck, there is a pretty big difference between the coasts and the midwest even just in North America. I grew up in Los Angeles and currently live in Dallas. Dallas is farther south and it actually does get hotter, but it also gets colder. Los Angeles had seen something like a quarter inch of snow in the past century when I left. It snows in Dallas every year. There was snow last week. Even though the currents in the Pacific flow from the north and the water is cold, it still has a moderating effect compared to living on the plains.

[RandallBrown]

The Gulf Stream has a massive impact so latitudes can't really be compared (temperature wise) in North America and Europe.

Barcelona is actually north of New York City.

[gsk22]

Slight tangent, but same issue with the ongoing heat pump hype.

"New heat pumps work in the cold now!" where cold is defined as down to 10 degrees F.

That's probably sufficient for most "cold" places, but in Minneapolis every winter we have multi-day stretches where the high temperature is below 10. Large swathes of the northern states are in a similar boat.

Hopefully we can solve these issues, because I don't want to be left behind technologically and environmentally!

[oh_sigh]

Resistive heaters for those situations work fine. They'll be unused for 95% of the year and are extremely cheap/simple.

[Volundr]

Exactly. My heat pump (or rather in this case the air handler) has a single resistive heat strip (but can take up to 4) in it that's used when the temperature is too low. It'll also kick on the heat strip to change the temperature quickly if the target temp is far from the current temp.

The combination heat pump+heat strip does struggle to keep things comfortable when we hit -15, but that's a once a year type deal here, and if it bothered us enough we could add another strip.

Frankly I don't think most of the folks with gas heat fare better during those snaps. Either system can be made capable of course, but it's uncommon enough here that nobody's system is sized to maintain a cozy 70 when it happens.

[bookofjoe]

http://education.greenemotion-project.eu/the-big-picture/how...

[Moru]

What temperature difference are we talking about between Norway and Minnesota? Medium and lowest expected temperatures would be interesting.